Many of my readers are from the Nashville area, specifically Otter Creek, and they frequent the City of Brentwood. If you’ve ever been to Brentwood, you’ve probably noticed the Bethel World Outreach Center.
At first glance, this church looks like any other charasmatic mega church, but what lies beneath is something that most Nashvillians still don’t know about. That Bethel World Outreach and their family of churches called “Every Nation Ministries”, are frighteningly connected to one of the most talked about Christian Cults of the 80s, Maranatha Campus Ministries.
But its not a small connection between the two. Almost all of the leaders of Every Nation’s family of congregations were also the highest leaders of Maranatha. They’ve just reformed and figured out how to keep from getting kicked off campuses. Very little of their theology has changed, and they are still deceptive.
Here is a timeline of Maranatha’s transition into Every Nation (Created by a former member at Bethel)
Anyway, if you get interested in this, I warn you, it gets scary. The theology of this church is just ok enough to be bad. They understand the dire nature of living in the Kingdom. The problem is, they’ve completely missed the point on what the Kingdom is. They feel that God has lost control of the earth, and that he’s chosen a group of people here to win it back for him. Through force if necessary. For the last thirty years, they’ve been going hard after the Republican Party, using politicians to obtain power over our country. Don’t think for a moment that any Republican policy maker doesn’t have some sort of connection with this church. It is absolutely scary. Their latest “annointed one” is Sam Brownback – Neocon – Kansas.
Anyway, I’ve acquired a transcript of a sermon preached when this group’s name was changing from Morning Star International to Every Nation (btw, this is short for Every Nation in a Generation). Some of the things said will blow your mind. Stuff about how God has “called us to rule over the Earth”. If you’d like a copy, please email me and I’ll be glad to send it to you.
In the meantime, if you are a Republican, you should call your representative and let them know they need to stay far away from this group.
Growing up 
I’m like a copy . . . Thanks!
I agree as I have known people who go there, but its really hard to say anything about it. Here’s how it would go:
They are crazy.
Why?
Well, they go to church all the time.
So? They are just devout.
No, you don’t understand. They tell the people how to live their lives.
So? Your church doesn’t have sermons admonishing you to live a better life?
No, it’s like a cult. Those people are so completely devoted. It is their whole lives once they join. They tell everyone about it and bring their friends.
Oh, so unlike your church where you go, but usually just leave it at the church, and don’t really say anything about it to people at work, b/c that isn’t PC.
I sometimes wonder if they have it figured out. Then I remember that Daniel Kendrick up and married his girlfriend and they moved out to Riverside, CA to work at Starbucks so he could go to Bethel University and study mystical spirituality. Oh, and a nerd on the tennis team had a dream that he was supposed to marry this really hot Delta Sigma girl, so he told the Church, and they got married.
I guess it’s all your perspective.
Y,
There’s plenty of internet documentation to back up that its not just a bunch of devout Christians. If you search “Every Nation Cult” on google, you will find links to message boards frequented by former members of the movement. Also, a blog detailing experiences of several former members can be found at
everynationmsiexposed.blogspot.com
Don’t get me wrong. I think they are crazy. I’m just saying that their strength lies in that they can easily cross back and forth over the crazy line more so than say, the Remnant or the Branch Dividians
You’re right, that is definitely a “strength” of the group. And it’s even worse because they’ve been down this path once before and did some things wrong, lots of bad press, got kicked off campuses, but they regrouped and learned from their mistakes.
However, from what I hear, Bethel is down to two services on Sunday morning. That can’t be a bad thing.
The sad thing is, no the fact there are wolves, but that so many Christians desire to be taken for a ride. A lover of Christ is tempted to separate themselves from the name “Christian”, so egregious is the lack of original thought and conviction among these devout worshippers of man.
Hello could i have a copy of the morningstar transcript?
Thanks
Don
Anyone who is interested can also see the transcript posted over here:
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/15971.html?1143187207
Hey Justin, in case you weren’t aware, there’s a bit of a battle going on at Every Nation’s Wikipedia entry over “To Reach and To Rule” (the title of this sermon). They’re now claiming that this “single message” by this “single pastor” isn’t representative of their theology and that it’s unreliable, and are now denying that they teach this kind of stuffCheck this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Every_Nation#Removed_.E2.80.9CTo_Reach_and_To_Rule.E2.80.9D
The “single message” was presented as indeed the raison d’etre for Every Nation… not just their name change but what Every Nation reall means. And the “single pastor” was Jim Laffoon, one of Every Nation’s top leaders and their highest ranking prophet.
Though I do have additional sermons saying pretty much the same thing by additional high ranking Every Nation leaders, past and present. The most recent one was from the end of 2006.
ulyankee
6-1 Loan Characteristics
Sorry I’m showing up late for the game, but a lot of the info mentioned is simply gossip, (you know the bible talks about gossip in a not too kind of a way).
Let me tell you my story; I got saved as a Southern Baptist and left the SB when my beliefs about the baptism of the Holy Spirit and such changed. I then joined Bethel (over twenty years ago). Nothing about what I believe spirtually and biblically has changed since before joining Bethel. We were an independant church and joined Morningstar/Every Nation Ministries about eight or ten years ago.
Phrases like “highest ranking prophet” makes it sound like we’re the Shriners or Mormons and nothing could be farther from the truth. We don’t have “a highest ranking system” that wording is meant to sound cultish, and it’s just wrong to try to persuade people with words rather than with “the Word”.
Yes, we try to disciple folks…the bible commands all churches to do so. Most churches do not. I think time better spent would be for you folks to encourage your own churches to make disciples of all nations instead of pointing fingers at those of us who are.
And no, we are still at three services and growing. We have six middle TN locations because the pastor, rather than building a mega church, thinks it’s more important to reach people in their own neighborhood. And we’re constantly raising up pastors and starting new churches around the world.
Maybe sometimes we do get a little too aggressive, but we’d rather error on the side of trying to advance the kingdom of God rather than playing it safe on the side lines.
It’s funny because some will show up at a Titans game painted half blue and half white from head to toe half naked in 40* weather yelling at the top of their lungs for three hours straight in excitement over a grown man carrying a pig skin over a white chalk line and no one thinks anything about it, but you find a body of believers who have been radically changed by Jesus Christ and willing to lay down their lives for the kingdom (no, not by force, but by faith) then you think something is wrong.
All I know is that when at the SB church I looked around and wondered why 80% of the people even bothered showing up since they weren’t living for the Lord. So I found a church where everyone is there because they all love the Lord and it’s an amazing experience. It was amazing 20 years ago when we only had 35 people and it still is today with over thirty-five hundred people.
No, my friend, the wolves in sheeps clothing are those who claim the name but have no fruit. I’ll tell you what… go lead someone to the Lord then come back and we’ll talk.
No/ Yes, no we’re not a cult nor have we ever been, and yes, the the ministry that many of our leaders came out of was beginning to practice cultish like practices which is why the ministry folded. It was not a scheme to change names or deceive people, no it folded and was gone and rightly so.
Now the dilemma, what do all these pastors and Christian leaders do now that the ministry they we’re in folded? Should they quit serving God because their previous ministry got into error? Now that would be foolish wouldn’t it? So, after a couple of years of prayer and soul searching as well as seminary training a NEW ministry was started (not an old re-vamped ministry, but a completely new one) under new leadership.
I am proud to be joined with ministers who aren’t afraid to admit their mistakes, learn from them and move forward. To be able to repent and distance yourself from bad teaching is a good thing and that is what they have done. The danger lies when people aren’t willing to change their ways when they make a mistake, not to those who make corrections. Aren’t you glad people aren’t drumming up things you did or said 15 or 20 years ago without first finding out whether there has been a change of heart or not? According to your statements you’re saying it is wrong to repent from past mistakes or teachings? Isn’t that what you are suppose to do?
Further more, all our sermons and teachings are available free of charge by downloading on your computer. There are no secrets – nothing to hide. So I wish that before Christians start attacking each other they would back each other and become well informed before blasting your fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord.
Even though this is several years later… well said Steven. I’m not sure what happened to Christians being able to repent and move on. I believe Paul admonished a church for kicking out a girl and her father and then not letting them back in after repentance. I was a member of Maranatha and the good certainly out-weighed the bad.
Hi Stephen, I just saw your post on this thread. Even though it was from years ago, I can tell you that EN is in serious doctrinal error. They follow a man made doctrine that has gone by many names (Dominion, Kingdom Now, Latter Rain, Manifest Sons, etc). I was part of that movement long enough to see the “fruit” of the ministry. Control, manipulation, and domination and pride are the key words I would use. Now, this movement’s ideology has spread into the public sector and is even affecting politics. I urge you to do your own research and compare what the Bible really teaches to what they teach about “the kingdom”, whether or not we still have “apostles” with the same level of authority as Paul, Perter, etc, and how, in the manner of the roman catholic tradition, leaders are not to be questioned about anything. Here is a goodf place to start… http://so4j.com/new-apostolic-reformation-latter-rain#restored_apostles_and_prophets
Malay, a Lot of EN teaching are PARTIAL bible based that is why it is deceptive. One of the things I taught people is this, the bible said, Jesus is the foundation. So everything that was taught by His disciples are build on that foundation which is Jesus. Example corinthians or galatians, everything is built on top of Jesus. Now if the doctrine does support what Jesus taught or practice then it is a false doctrines. Example EN teaches to obey their leaders or blind obedience. Even that its in the bible . Jesus does not support that , He disobeyed everything what the Pharasee teaches. mind you the Pharasee like Paul said are the teachers of the Word of God. Paul describe this himself. Because he is once a Pharasee. So even when it is biblically based it is not of the Lord. By history God the Father gave over 200 laws to the Jews to obey by the time Jesus came, there are 600 laws . 400 of them are added by man. Based on the Word of God. Its all twisted. Same thing as EN, its doctrine are twisted. Listening to your conscience, I am pretty sure the Holy Spirit is speaking to you when you start to question things and voice your opinion. Remember Jesus lives inside of you He speaks to you.
Steven,
How is it advancing the Kingdom of God for your ministers to live in Laurelbrooke?
I’ve known far too many former members to think that they were just pissed off and making up stuff. There’s a problem in that group of churches, and its almost word for word the same as what happened with Maranatha.
I used to go to an EN church. I truly believed that we were the only ones that were living for God. By this I don’t mean we were the only ones that were saved, but we were the ones that seemed to care about advancing God’s kingdom. We were the only ones that truly cared about what God cared about. We believed we were right.
I have to say from the bottom of my heart, they were very controlling. I remember reading about cults, and one of the factors is that there is a difference between being controlling and simply offering advice. Discipleship to EN is controlling.
Jesus said to go and make disciples of all nations. EN teaches that we are all called to go and make disciples. The process goes a little like this: become a christian, meet people around your age, convince them to go to church with you, teach them to act like you (control them).
Issues such as movies, music, friends, dating, alcohol, serving in the church, hours spent praying and reading the Bible, church authority, are all very controlling. Here’s why:
Movies: don’t watch these movies or you’re not a christian, heaven forbid you see a boobie or laugh at an adult joke
Music: don’t listen to any music other than christian, R&B music will make you want to have sex, Rap (by the way I hate rap, most is obnoxious), rock, alternative, if you listen to these you are not a christian. By the way you should throw all of your secular CDs away. Don’t worry about trading them in because you will make God angry by getting a portion of you money back.
Friends: don’t hang out with them, they are a bad influence, they may be people you’ve been friends with for a long time, but bad company corupts good character. Family, if they don’t believe what you believe, you probably shouldn’t hang out with them that much, you should also try to push Jesus down their throats, get them to come to church. We are your family now. Do what your discipler says.
Dating: If you don’t want us to like you, if you want to be disobedient, then dating would be great for you!!! If you decide to date then we can’t disciple you. In fact, to join our little group, to become a true disciple, you need to agree not to date for a certain amount of time (you need to do what your Discipler tells you)
Alcohol: they will refuse to argue over this. They will sarcastically say “You win! If you want to drink, fine. But where is your heart?” If you ever drink, try to get a position in this organization. Any alcohol consumed better be in secret, don’t let anyone see you because you might influence them to drink, and then we would all go to hell.
Serving the church: They will try to make you feel bad during the service if you don’t volunteer to watch their children. With all of that tax free money that they rake in one would think they could simply hire someone. The pastor lived in a freaking country club, right on the golf course. His sons told me he had a pair of shoes that cost over a grand!!! I am glad to know that 3 months worth of my tithes made his feet look good up on that stage. Make sure you tithe, even when it hurts as they say. Don’t worry about your own financial issues just make sure Pappa Bear has some nice alligator shoes.
Time praying: If you don’t spend an hour praying every day then you are not a powerful warrior christian. God is upset with you!!!
Reading the Bible: you better be waking up 2 hours early to spend time in the Word. Then you better read for an hour before you go to bed. If not, God is mad at you.
Church Authority: Whatever we say GOES!!! If you disagree to any of the above issues then maybe you need to rethink things. If you think differently then you have an issue with PRIDE. Humble yourself and you will be in God’s favor. Remember in Hebrews it says that no discipline is pleasant at that time but in the end it produces a harvest in righteousness. True discipleship requires you to submit to authority, namely the authority of your discipler. Don’t ask questions. This isn’t advice. This is discipleship.
We aren’t a cult, we just love God.
I was in high school when I was involved. EN really reaches out to the young (high school and college). Honestly, now I feel like I was being used. It upsets me when I see young people taking a stand for their religion. I know that might sound bad to some of you but let me explain. I believe that most of the time these positions that the young people are standing for are those initiated by adults. I remember feeling like a faith worrior if I pissed people off over the issue of God. It meant I was shaking things up for God. Something like that might warrant a “Good job!” from your fellow church members.
I am now a pluralist thanks to EN.
Alright people, it’s clear that none of you really spent any time with these leaders. I lived in Nashville for 6 months, ACTUALLY went through their program and guess what…
I didn’t grow a third eye, I got to choose the relationships I wanted and didn’t want, you know what’s even more amazing!!! I was able to listen to whatever music I wanted!
I won’t pontificate on all that happened or didn’t happen, nor will I take the lengths to cover all the details of these men and womens lives.
What I can tell you is this. Yes weak minded people that would rather follow what someone else has to say rather than thinking for themselves would have a problem with the ministry. Accountability can be a bitch for those that refuse it. Guess what, the great leaders of any nation, organization, or company have it to stay in check (to stay balanced). These men had that, both inside as well as outside the ministry.
As for the snide remark about Laurelbrooke, I’ve been to some of these homes, humm, did you know what any of these leaders did before they were in ministry or how they make their money? I DIDN’T THINK SO!
Pull your head out of your @ss and do your research. (Now mind, you these guys all probably would not appreciate the way I’m articulating my thoughts in this fashion, as crass as they may be, they are correct.)
Rice Broocks- author and inherited his families business, OIL!!! that = $$$
Tim Johnson- Oh, did we forget he played professional football? that’s of course outside of the other businesses that he has a hand in.
Tony Boselli- ooh, ONE more professional football player.
I can go on and on and on!
These guys have businesses, have written books, and have had success in other places other than just being “lowly pastors” trying to “take over the world” (common, leave that to pinky and the brain), by the way, some of these pastors even refused their salary and gave it back to the church. Stick that in your pipe!
PEOPLE, seriously, start looking at the positives the organization has done for the WORLD! One of the first NGO’s to land after the war in Afghanistan (and other nations), taking in agricultural specialist, dr’s, nurses, dentists, engineers, carpenters, and I can go on. Why??? No, not to brow beat the people into becoming, dundundunnnnn, Fundamental extremest Christians, but to actually help them rebuild. Do you know how many leaders around the world respect these guys because of the impact the organization has had on their cities and nations, MANY!
Just to share my personal story, I have been in a number of churches through out my life and seen some “wacky” things that caused far greater questions than what I saw in EN.
In the four years going to EN churches around the country, I saw people, both in leadership as well as in the masses that truly wanted to follow Jesus, passionately!
I did see some error, no doubt, but did you happen to wake up this morning? Gosh, I did and when I looked in the mirror my halo just wasn’t shining as bright as yours i guess.
Really people, no body told me I was going to rot in hell when I moved out of town and away from the church I went to after four years.
When I ended the relationship I was in, I sought counsel and was held accountable to my decision, note, “my decision.”
When I chose to leave ministry, my pastor was the one that told me “I” was released to pursue business. guess what, “I” actually prayed and fasted on my own to find out exactly what “I” needed to be doing, I do believe that God will answer our prayers if we seek him. And, if we seek him earnestly, we will find him. It was after I felt like it was what I was supposed to do that I left. No one forced me.
There was one other small “flaw” if you will. That would be in their approach to leadership and yes, depending upon your school of thought it could be misunderstood.
The thought is this: Where ever you go seek out the leaders. Where do you find the leaders of a school, or even the military? You find them in the elite groups, right?
The thought process is no different than the company that you work for. Why do company’s choose to hire a college graduate verses a high school drop-out?
Because people will follow someone they respect. Why do they target the athlete’s or cheerleaders on a campus, because those are people of influence. Why the navy seals over some peon that just enlisted? Because the peon has no voice, no impact, no way to communicate throughout the ranks.
Why students, same reason company’s do, they are the next generation to take power, they have to have the moral compass to get the job done so we don’t have more “Martha Stewart’s” and “Enron” scandals.
And yes, this can breed an elitist/magisterial type of environment if people do not take advantage of that environment and grow.
Well stated and accurate. People need to know the facts. Rice inherited the Sunoco fortune and is extremely giving.
Leaders?
Rice Broocks, Jim Laffoon, Stephen Mansfield etc. Look at Stephen Mansfield, he was brought in to teach one of the ‘pastorial training schools’. What a man of extreme faith & boldness? Look at the incredible stand for God he had to make by standing strong enough when many Americans were undecided in the vote, and supported then Senator Barack Obama by writing his book ‘The Faith of Barack Obama’. Mansfield even had the boldness to team up with Desmond Tutu, to endorse his book on the front cover! Desmond Tutu is the Archbishop of the Anglican church who works tirelessly to persuade the church and the world that it is time for us to accept homosexual clergy! Please google now yourself.
Yes, this is correct. And as if the first four years did not spell out that Mansfield (Pastorial trainer) did not miss it by steering middle ground people to vote for an anti-God, Pro-Abortion, pro-homosexual, pro-Islam, pro-socialism leader, then they just went out and did a revised work in ongoing continued support of our unchristian president. Of course Mansfield (church leader, guest on TBN with Rice) has stated on TV, as well as radio several times since his initial writing this gook that our President is a Christian. Mansfield proudly declares this, and has no issue with the fact he used his leadership to persuade people to vote for our anti God President.
Wake up church, when you support the hands of evildoers, this is not on God’s side. When you support leaders who use their power to accelerate and increased ‘murder’, this is not on God’s side. God is not dead, but much of the church, and many of their leaders are ‘the walking dead’. Would Jesus have Desmond Tutu support any of his writings? I am sure Desmond Tutu would hit the ground face first at 185 thousand miles a second if he confronted Jesus. Mansfield has no shame. Mansfield invited this front cover endorsement from a world known church leader that is both pro homosexual (especially for ministers), and anti-Semitic (against the Jews!). This is ‘replacement theology’ which is what Rice teachers, just look at his book “every nation in our generation” which perverts the parable of the leaven (Mt. 13:33) like leaven is something good! Replacement Theology teachers pervert scriptures such as Matthew 13:33 in support of their ministry (essentially their kingdom) taking over the world prior to Christ return. They teach that Revelation has been fulfilled, and many teach Nero was the anti Christ. Well Jesus spoke of such horrible tribulation that there would never ever be tribulation as bad as the ‘true tribulation’. So if 70 AD was the tribulation, why did we lost another 70mm people in WW1 and WW2? Obviously these were worse losses, so we need to hear what Jesus is saying and not men who misinterpret the Bible.
Those who have been taught the Bible correctly realize the leaven is symbolic of sin, so the parable of the leaven is not about the gospel spreading before Jesus returns (which in fact it will, thank God Mt. 24:14), however sin will be spreading simultaneously like leaven. Leaven grows best in a lukewarm environment which is what Mansfield, Rice and other leaders have helped breed by compromising when it comes to supporting the pope, Obama, replacement theology, etc.
The sad thing is the leaders ignore the gravity of this kind of behavior, since they are ‘advancing the kingdom of God.
Sadly they are many times advancing their own Kingdom. Yes there are those with good hearts, but sadly this incident is one that has been pointed out by several leaders, and there has been no repentance. When you don’t repent for gross sin, then this leads to other gross sin, such as leaders struggling with homosexuality themselves.
Seriously, There a serious flaw in your discernment when it comes to explaining to us about your leaders.
Just some first common sense things to look at that you have obviously missed: first of all there is no basis for EN’s doctrine to “adopt” churches like they do in the bible. The apostles went to places and planted churches. This “joining” and recruitment where you get churches to join your ministry to be “under cover” is nothing more than a Business for your leaders to make money. And yes, this has been reported to the US goverment for them to monitor your group. The Bible is very clear that in order to have Godly authority you have to be under authority. Your leaders want the World to submit to them but they are not submitted to anyone. That’s the first big clue you missed. Secondly, and the most prominent feature that has destroyed people like you and your discernment is the role of false teaching. My old pastor said that God is going to give you and En the nations and You and EN will rule them and manage them until God gets back and judges you on how well you did. I got news for you, the last government on earth is the antichrist government and YHWH will return and destroy him with the breath of his lips. So, EN is the Antichrist? This type of teaching leads to the fruit of loving the creation more than the creator which the Bible calls a repobate mind, people who are rejects of the faith. Your vision, that God wants you to go after the rich and famous is completely again, surprise false teaching. The bible says YHWH is not a respector of persons but your vision is. How can You have a vision from “God” that is based in a premise that he is against and not based on his word? Again, you have to look at the fruit. Your leaders are after money that ‘s why they target these types of people. Just because your are sucessfuly does not mean you are alive. In fact, the Lord has shown me how some of your leaders are indeed spiritually dead and in the process of becoming twice dead. Once thier season of iniquity reaches full maturation, the Lord will pluck up what he did not plant. This may take 50 years, it might be around the corner, who knows. I do know though they will reap and be exposed for what they have sown. Remember you put your trust in God not man. As ezekiel told the prince of tyre, your just but a man, not a God.
Hey look, we should all monitor our leaders and each other and hold them accountable. It’s good for you to question. To say these guys are after money, though, is pretty hilarious. There are a lot of false prophets out there who are after money, but these guys just are not. They already have plenty of money and they do that to keep themselves above reproach. Unfortunately, Satan loves lies.
Yeah Satan loves lies like fools like you are a great picture too!… if they don’t love money then why do they target nfl football players.. how can you have a vision that is based on coveting and idolatry like possessing the world and if they are not after money then why did they steal money from the world missions funds; you are totally lost you fool and for someone who is knowledge tracker my people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge…
Dearest in the lord,
I greet you in the name of our lord Jesus Christ our Lord,i am Mrs Rosemary Johnson from Republic of Kuwait.I am married to Mr Stewart Johnson who worked with Kuwait embassy in Ivory Coast for nine years before he died in the year 2005.
We were married for eleven years without a child.He died after a brief illness that lasted for only four days.Before his death we were both born again Christian.Since his death I decided not to remarry or get a child outside my matrimonial home which the bible is against.
When my late husband was alive he deposited the sum of US$2.500million dollars in a bank in Abidjan, Cote d’Ivoire west Africa.Presently,this money is still in bank. Recently,my doctor told me that i would not last for the next eight months due to cancer problem.
The one that disturbs me most is my stroke sickness.Having known my condition i decided to donate this fund to a charity organization that will utilize this money the way i am going to instruct herein.
I want an organization that will use this fund for orphanages,schools and churches, widows,propagating the word of God and to endeavor that the house of God is maintained. The bible made us to understand that “Blessed is the hand that giveth”
I took this decision because i don’t have any child that will inherit this money and my husband relatives are not Christians and i don’t want my husband’s efforts to be used by unbelievers.
I don’t want a situation where this money will be used in an ungodly way.This is why i am taking this decision.I am not afraid of death hence i know where i am going.I know that i am going to be in the bosom of the lord.Exodus 14 VS 14 says that “the lord will fight my case and i shall hold my peace”.
I don’t need any telephone communication in this regard because of my health hence the presence of my husband’s relatives around me always.I don’t want them to know about this development.With God all things are possible.As soon as i receive your reply i shall give you the contact of the bank in Abidjan, Cote d’Ivoire west africa.
I will also issue you an authority letter that will prove you the present beneficiary of this fund from the ministry of justice.I want you and the church to always pray for me because the lord is my shephard.My happiness is that i lived a life of a worthy Christian.
Whoever that wants to serve the lord must serve him in spirit and truth.Please always be prayerful all through your life.Contact me on this email rosemary_12johnson@yahoo.co.jp any delay in your reply will give me room in sourcing another church for this same purpose.Please assure me that you will act accordingly as i stated herein.Hoping to receive your reply.
Remain blessed in the lord.
Yours sister in Christ,
Mrs Rosemary Johnson.
Its sad how when you are a part of a cult you can’t see it. My prayers are with you. Its all still the same.
Hello everyone. I’m a member of Every Nation in Quezon City, Philippines. I cannot speak for the highest levels of authority in EN especially in other countries, but from my perspective (churchgoer, discipler, volunteer), EN has always glorified God over and above anyone/anything.
Perhaps we should distinguish between cultic teachings and practices of some *persons* versus those imposed by *an organization*. Where I come from (ironically the official birthplace of EN), we are reminded that it’s not about any of us, nor about EN, but about God working through EN and beyond, through other people and other churches. We are encouraged to personally seek God in all matters, and spiritual leaders are reminded that they can pray with their disciple but cannot dictate who to marry, where to work, and so on.
I’m sure there are mistakes, but is it not a duty of a brother to enlighten an erring brother? Jesus tells us to first confront privately. Have any of the anti-EN people in this thread done this? (This also goes for people still in EN, and this also applies for any other group.) If you see error, the Bible calls us to lovingly speak the truth to the person/s involved.
I hope this clarifies matters. God has always worked through fallen people, and we can serve Him best if we work together, in all truth and in all love.
Regards,
Tessa
I pray for unity of churches as that is what the movement of the Holy SPirit and not to separate and point fingers who is bad and who is good and what worked for you and what did not work.
I agree that sometimes churches do too overboard or are over baring and controlling your mind as it is sitll by grace and God’s power to change the person from the inside…having been in many churches and remain loyal for a decade at a time I can logically see the differences …Every Nation is one church that helped me understand the bible even having been a Christian for ten years at that time I found EN I still couldnt undersatnd nor know how to apply God’s word effectively in my life it was in EN that God brought light and life to the word of God in the bible and that was when I can really say I was born again not when in ten years I was going to a born again church where pastors dont even teach and equipp its members and instead make them reliant on pastors and serve them for their own agenda as we all could not understand the bible. But it was in EN that finally me and my husband read and understood and as we were discipled we saw our lives changing our marriage improving and our prayers answered and we receieved lots of miracles .In other words this church was radical and not mediocre and was how the church grew from when we were a thousand and now to 50 thousand. ANd to every radical church there ar e radical attacks from those who did not grasp the vision nor the teachings….I aslo went to a branch where the leaders were so controlling even to the point of going against the privacy of the family lives where the leaders thought they were the best parents and they know everything but God is all knowing and by HIs grace He is in control there are jsut some leaders who take it to heart to be responsible for their constituents and even to those kinds God is merciful and would bring those leaders to humility but I had to stand firm knowing that waht they do is wrong to control and put false guilt upon members and making them feel less of a person if they dont do what they say. Fortunately I had 2 of both worlds and know the basic foudnation by which EN stands for and know that the senior pastors are also against ltheir eaders who abuse their authorities.
Its hard because though leaders hearts are to help adn guide people there is a thin line between loving your constituents by owning them or loving them enought to trust God who would know better what to do with each individual as God treats His people individually and the church corporately also. Just always know the motive of the leader is love and wants that you grow in HIm and know the power but also they should be subjected to checking themselves by the governing body of EN and not do their own thing the way they see it or else it turns people away instead of turning them to God. But despite the controlling factor I learned to see past those human errors and instead focused on God’s word applied what was good and grew form there and received blessings and discpling other weak women so they too can be strong in HIm through HIs power and word,.to pastors who are controlling learn controlling spriit goes agianst the grain of God’s love and that the GRace of God is above all and adding this and that is also like a cult or a religion ,may you be relseased from that kind of spirit and may the love of God be one and evident and may EN continue to grow and train their pasotrs to be one in pastoring style so that they dont get into offending others by allowing other leaders not to corporately grasp the spriitt and foundation by which Every NAton CHurch stands for.Sitll me and family are very grateful to EN for building us and helping us grow in the love of God.
Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
My name is Jen and I am part of an Every Nation church in Manila Philippines. It also saddens me that so much time is wasted pointing fingers. No church is perfect and people will make mistakes. I think the whole point is really to move on and focus on Christ and what He has called us to do.
To go into all the world and make disciples of all nations.
By making disciples, were not making every nation church goers, we are encouraging people to seek God and as they seek the Lord, they will become more like Christ.
I used to be part of another church but at that time there was no discipleship program and I walked into a youth service of the every nation church here. I prayed for a discipler. No one forced it on me, and to this day I thank the Lord for bringing her to me to encourage me to seek God and learn the foundations of my faith.
The church is not perfect, but the point again is to focus on the Lord.
They had guidelines and standards but they always talked about dating, alcohol, entertainment etc. being more about personal convictions rather than sin. Sin is only what the bible calls sin.
Anyway, my prayer is that everyone just focuses on Christ. I am thankful for my church because it was them who helped me overcome any of my destructive behavior which is probably the way I would have gone dealing with a dysfunctional home. It was also them who encouraged me to wait for God’s best and I am happily married and richly blessed all because of GOD. I am thankful for them and I hope that you all are experiencing the same thing in your churches.
Let us be united in Christ as he prayed for us in the book of John. Disputes are not worth it.
🙂 Be blessed!
wow!!! this is a real talk here.. i believe that you can always judge the tree by its fruit… i started attending EN church 13 yrs ago… yes i can say that there were mistakes.. and it was corrected.. in pulpit.. or in small groups… its not a perfect church… and i thank God that i find a spiritual family here… and that everyone is encourage to honor God and make disciples… maybe those who made a bad comment start to release forgiveness… attend victory weekend again… if that helps 🙂
Just wanted to say my son has been attending an Every Nation church in another city for several years now and no one has dictated the details of his everyday life. They continue to welcome him into their church family even when he shows up in his preferred goth/punk garb and funky hair styles. His church was a source of strength for him at a critical period in his life and I was (and still am) grateful for its presence in his life.
I was a member here, far too long though. I think for 14 years. I am sooo glad that the lord opened my eyes to this ministry. I have seen abuse after abuse. Stealing , lying , fraudulent activities in Every nation Ministry. And the people would throw excuses that it is not a perfect church. Well. God definitely is not looking for a perfect church but He is looking for a church that has MORAL CHARACTER and this ministry definitely has NONE. Paul laid out scriptures for us what are the requirement for being a church leader and a pastor and one of them is Character.
1 timothy 3:8
8Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain.
Every Nation leaders have pursued fervently dishonest gain. Yet the people in Every nation Ministry continue to bypass the Lord’s standard of requirement of church leadership. making excuses from their own humanistic doctrines. Of “we are not a perfect church”.
Then if you exposed them you will be accused of bitterness, unforgiveness, got offended etc. Instead of following another of the Lord’s standard and instruction to exposed these people so others may be warned. They do this just to shut you up. Another humanistic unbiblical doctrine and excuses.
Every Nation Ministry has their own doctrines to follow and obey and definitely none of them biblical practice but cultic and demonic.
If the fraud is going on among regular people, thats fine, but this is happening among top leadership. And right there, the Lord NEVER told us to make excuses for them. We are supposed to follow the biblical step of what needed to be done.
Jesus is not the Lord of this ministry. The Ministry and its church government is. The biblical standard of the Lord has definitely been overstep.
HI,
Am amzed that its CHristians doing this negative blog…as a pastor once said devils dont fight each other CHristians fight each other all the time…lets be careful about this.
Am a member of Every NAtion and since that tiem that we joined God used EN to save our marriage and rescue my family from breaking up. ANd now we are celebrating our 22nd year of marriage.Its ine churhc i can say that has a clear path and not based on emotions but deeply rooted in the Word. The disciplehip program is great and effective thats why its a flourishing church.
ANd the way to know if the churhc is fullfilling its destiny is whne there are attacks and accusations like these. Better speak good words than vent out your disgust I dont see any good comes out of this.
I have seen this ministry destroyed marriages. I have seen friendship destroyed. I have seen families destroyed in this ministry. In fact , their own top Every Nation Leader/Pastor committed adultery and Every Nation Pastors JUSTIFIED it because his wife wanted to leave EN and he does not. So its OK for him to commit adultery. Mind you he was not divorced yet when he had an affair. His own children hated this ministry I was told.
Its a very destructive ministry more like a mafia ministry than a christian ministry.
People claim that its deeply rooted in the Word but when challenge in daily life, most cannot even quote one scripture only quoting Every nation ministry doctrines or some pastors like parrots. Speaking of the same language.
Never from Scriptures yet claiming that its deeply rooted from the Word.
Every nation Pastors would “warn” people in the church not to listen to factnet or like this website , be careful with this and be careful with that. YET the bible said NO Man can lay a foundation other than Jesus Christ , what type of foundation do you have that you have to be careful in this kind of things ?
Every nation Ministry pastors and doctrines wanted to shelter the people from the world . Yet the bible told us to do the opposite.
Jesus never said be careful on these things , the only thing that Jesus wants us to be aware and be careful about is the leaven of the Pharasee.
Even when Jesus knew He ws about to die, His prayer to the Father is that NOT TO GET THEM OUT OF THE WORLD BUT TO PROTECT THEM . Jesus never prayed to shelter the disciples. In fact He said the opposite if you follow HIM you will be persecuted. God never promised a good life if you follow Him. EN preach the opposite.
Anything that Every nation teaches is always sound good, look good but yet exact opposite of what scripture told us to do. Its toxic.
Just read what gerdee wrote and there is no scripture to it.
The discipleship that Jesus told us to do was supposed to disciple people to be like Him in fruits and gifts of the Spirit. Yet instead Every Nation Ministry disciple people and they all look like each other, quoting each other and NONE look like Jesus. None can lay hands and heal people, none can perform signs and wonders and miracles its is absolutely nothing like Christ. Didnt Jesus said that, go and make disciples and do what He does, go heal the sick raise the dead ?
None even stop and ask why God is not moving in this ministry in signs and wonders . So People like gerdee would make excuses. Oh we are not supposed to follow signs and wonders a lot of deception follow that. Quite true BUT thats what Jesus said Go heal the sick and raise the dead. You can’t sidestep what Jesus said.
At least do this, go heal the sick in the name of Jesus. i know that raising the dead is a bit hard. But how about heal the sick. I want to see at least ONE of your top leaders do that.
Jim lafoon CLAIMED that Steve Murrell, Rice Brookes and Phil Bonasso are apostles of Christ. Well my bible said on 2 corinthian 12:12 that the sign of an apostle is that he has signs, wonders and miracles done AMONG YOU WITH PERSEVERANCE. That means if they truly are apostle as Every nation claim, they should have signs , wonders and miracles being performed publicly. And thats the Lord’s standard. I know for a regular christian like me could not do that but surely an apostle should have that. We cannot lower the Lord’s standard. BUT as usual, people like gerdee and the rest of every nation ministry member will lower God’s standard constantly to fit into their doctrines and belief.
Wow. It sounds like you had a bad experience and you are right to point it out. It doesn’t mean that others had the same experience. I am confident that the Lord will point everyone on this page in the right direction and separate any from false prophets and pull others closer to a church where they are needed. It’s good to have talks like these, but remember we are all part of the body of Christ.
@geedee:
ROFL. Wow. That is a page right out of the EN “handbook!”
It’s wrong to talk about injustice and abuse in the church, right? Because they are “God’s anointed!” Not even God holds this standard for His church. God never tells us not to question or discern or counter injustice in the church! In fact, He tells us quite the opposite!
This is a typical feature in any dysfunctional family/group paradigm.
You blame the victim, blame the victim, blame the victim. Accuse them of “finger pointing,” “divisiveness,” “disunity,” and “rebellion.” LOL. It’s so rote it’s funny. :o)
Many people have and will get “good” things out of EN ministries and other cult-like ministries. This, however, doesn’t negate the abusiveness or control. WHY MUST IT? Why can both not co-exist?
Our EN church also helped me in some ways learn some things about God. But that doesn’t mean they weren’t abusive and controlling! And it also doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t acknowledge the good and fight the bad. (This is a Biblical principle).
Frankly, after reading this and other blogs on Marantha, EN, etc. it is sad to me that someone would completely ignore the bad and simply focus on the good. That is naive and sad.
It also creates more trouble for victims because it represents one more battle to fight, one more person who invalidates their experience, etc.
It seems to me that people in this cult have forsaken the love of people and concern for them in favor of protecting their beloved institution. Are not God’s people more important than an institution? After all, the people of God are His church. Not some group of pastors in a particular set of buildings.
Read Pagan Christianity much?
I think you are wrong in saying people are supporting an institution. You also say, “It also creates more trouble for victims because it represents one more battle to fight, more more person who invalidates their experience, etc.”. Aren’t you invalidating the experience of those who had a positive experience. I think it is right to point out the negative aspects and the controlling nature, but not all experience that and it’s right to point this out too.
Also, love the veiled threat. “Better speak good words” OR ELSE!
By the way, this and other blogs are very helpful to those of us who have been abused. It helps us not feel crazy. Like we were. When we were in EN….
ROFL
Thanks Cathy…
I don’t really respond much to the comments from the still brainwashed… Every now and then, I’ll get a couple and I just laugh.
Glad you made it out of EN and hopefully to a place where you can heal spiritually (whatever that looks like).
Sent from my iPhone
Funny , I was reading seriously how these pastors does not want to get paid and return the money. WELL , LET ME UPDATE You ON THAT ONE. They are now receiving money. Why ? Because I blew the horn that these people were stealing from the Mission. Diverting mission funds to their salary so to look good, they rejected the money like Rice Brookes. . Rice is not rejecting any money now, the guy is desperate for money. Even all these VCF staff are desperate for money. They all are squeezing money from all these churches preaching about giving and God will bless you if you give. Putting guilt on people on lacking of faith if you don’t give. Sound like VCF staff has lack of faith since they are desperate for money. DID you check on these VCF – EN staff , a lot of them are Not going to get paid any longer and some are being paid partial , there is just simply NO MONEY. When all those churches left worldwide. After finding out what happened to their offerings.
The last time I check , some of them are selling their homes. Could not afford the lifestyle any longer. Money dried up.
We can make it simple. What would Jesus do ? Would He cover up the sins and make excuses for these people ? Or would He exposed them ? If Jesus exposed the sin of Peter to a crowd why make you think that He would cover the sins of EN=VCF ?
@geedee
One more thing (the critical point). Why are you here posting comments? In other words, how did you find this site?
Were you just browsing the web one day looking for anti-EN blogs? Trying to defend the institution against “invaders?”
Or perhaps….perhaps….you typed something into google about En and abusiveness or control or the like. Perhaps there is a tiny little voice in the back of your mind whispering to you that something is not as it should be?
Perhaps you have lost some good friends out your institution and are wondering what happened with them?
Perhaps you’ve overheard some things about how EN has treated others and are getting online just to “prove it’s not true?”
Whatever the case, you certainly didn’t land here by accident. Something to think about.
EN doesn’t have to be all bad. This doesn’t invalidate the good things you experienced. It doesn’t have to. But there are MAJOR issues!!!
I have to confirm what former EN members are saying about control and crazyness. I have multiple friends were looking for a church at college and they have become members of VCM which is EN.
What others have been saying about control is true. My friends were told not to hang out with “non Christian” friends, for example not to hang out with Catholics. I don’t mean “dont go to a catholic church” they literally encouraged to not aknowledge and ignore the others.
Controlling practices aside, an alarm should go off when you hear about “prophets” and “speaking in tongues” That is just crazy. They tell people instead of reading the Bible and believing it literally, to pray and try to hear God, they expect people must hear voice of God.
Thanks incognito. That sounds about par for the course. Ironically, since leaving (or, rather, getting booted from) our former EN church, my Catholic friends have been some of the most loving and Christlike. Go figure! :o)
I believe in tongues and prophecy but these things are TIGHTLY controlled in EN churches. Not really the movement of the Holy Spirit we see in the New Testament, huh?
Hi guys, it’s me again.
Incognito: “They tell people instead of reading the Bible and believing it literally, to pray and try to hear God, they expect people must hear voice of God.” <– Believing the Bible literally includes believing the stories of countless people who hear the voice of God. Your statement seems inconsistent with Biblical theology. Please clarify your views before using them against somone else's.
I understand why some people would feel that there's an "imperialist" mindset over at EN. I would rather give more autonomy to the local churches.
I have also heard and experienced ungrace myself. I haven't heard anything about anyone being kicked out, but it's not impossible. Cathy, I'm sorry to hear that. But to be fair, I have also experienced God's unconditional love through Christians in EN. Should we then attack an institution that brings both bad and good? (Except, if your entire experience was bad… Again, I'd be sorry to hear that, but I hope that you would also hear out the other comments on this site.)
I have many "loving", "Christ-like" "friends" – some are Catholic, some are EN, some are atheist. With all due respect, so what? We know that God is love and truth, even though His followers poorly represent Him. This does not excuse the un-Christian behavior of EN people, but I'm just saying that Christians in EN do follow the Bible and God is working in their lives, the same way that He can work or is already working in other circles.
Cathy, tongues and prophecy are *not* tightly controlled in my local church (Quezon City, Philippines). Because I have not visited every church, I cannot say if this is true for all EN churches. With all due respect, can you? Can you speak for all EN churches?
I have seen and experienced "the movement of the Holy Spirit we see in the New Testament" in my life and in my fellow Christians in EN. Although I am not Catholic anymore, I am happy to say that I am seeing that same movement of the Holy Spirit in some Catholic circles I know. "Par for the course"?
I wonder if the anti-EN posters here have read the previous pro-EN comments, including mine. God is Love and God is Truth. Satan is the Grand Accuser and Deceiver. We need to look at the *whole* truth and nothing but, and discuss in an atmosphere of grace. (Calling on Justin to moderate?)
I just finished speaking to three people who recently left EN and VCF. And I am wondering Tessa, does your church requires you to read 4 chapters of the bible a day ?
No they don’t. There’s a leadership/theology class that you’re free to sign up for or leave. I’ve been a member since 2004 and I have yet to read the entire Bible.
It’s understandable to get a negative message from people who left, because obviously, they left! (In the same way that I spoke negatively of where I came from, when people asked why I left. It’s true, but it might not be the entire story…)
Anyways, I’m thankful that here I get to share an alternative view. So thanks for asking, Sandra.
P.S. I brought up the class because there’s a requirement in that class to read 4 chapters a day. Consider it homework. I did not meet that requirement, but I still “passed” the course 🙂 Yes, “bad” student, but the 4-chapters-a-day cannot define one’s Christianity, and I think you’ll agree.
Was there any pressure for you to join any type of class example ENLI ? How about serving ? Are people required or pressured to serve ? To clean up the pastors or church leaders home ?
The class I was referring to was ENLI. In services and discipleship groups, we’re encouraged to join that class, or serve in ministry (ex: teach in kids’ church), but it’s not a requirement. Perhaps some people give pressure, or perhaps others feel pressured, but there’s no requirement.
I know of some leaders’ homes where discipleship groups meet, but the home owners would serve the guests. I’ve only heard of cleanups as fundraisers (students or church staff would clean the house of the donors), and as volunteer work (during sudden floods last year, to help friends from church whether leaders or not).
several years ago, my sister was pressured to join ENLI simply because the church leader would get a reward for signing up the most people in her group.
I know a lot of people were pressured to join ENLI because everybody is doing it. In my former church, my former pastor even said that we are not allowed to share the gospel if we did not finished ENLI.
I see. Well “rewards” are a touchy issue. Even in kids’ church, we’re still discussing if the younger kids would all get the same reward (a practice prone to abuse), or if they would be given based on performance (constrained by teachers’ judgment, or by kids acting but not necessarily bearing godly fruit).
I brought this up in detail because rewards can be used as good incentives, but it’s a delicate balance between being encouraged and being threatened with eternal damnation. (I might sound like I’m exaggerating, but maybe we’ve seen such instances ourselves.) The Bible speaks of salvation by faith in Christ alone, and rewards by good works. How do churches promote their activities? On the other hand, how do members understand or misunderstand their leaders? Leaders must be grounded in God’s word, but so should each member.
About your last statement: that’s sad to hear. In fairness, where I’m from, we’re encouraged to share whatever we can. Even someone sharing One2One can be literally one page ahead of the one being shared to, so it’s not really a case of finish-ENLI-first. There are other classes aside from ENLI that we’re encouraged (or required?) to take before leading, but implementation is not that strict. (Again, I’m an example of this.)
Thanks for sharing Sandra. I’m thankful that I can share about the other side of EN. I hope other churches (EN or not) would be more like my local church (you might notice that I’m happy here). 🙂 God bless you 🙂
Tessa, There are only a few VCF-EN that does not practice pressure like your church, if not rare. Extremely rare. I did met very few VCF pastors and know one EN pastor that does not practice the control and legalism. BUT majority of VCF and EN is pretty bad. I know for a fact that majority of the people who left VCF or EN are being accused of bitterness, unforgiveness or being offended or whatever stupid accusation that they can think of. That right there shows how bad this ministry is. In a normal church setting, when a christian said goodbye to a church, in any type of disagreement, the church normally would give their peace and blessings. And they do not backbite nor backstab a former church member. They do not accused them of anything. Example , in my current church, I would say, Oh, I have not seen this person for a while, they have stop coming. Something have happened ? The answer I got was, yes something happened but we cannot tell you what it is. And that was it ! No accusation, NOTHING. Then I found out the person left in bad terms but nothing specific. The church will not accuse anything of the person who left in bad terms.
So for people to get kick out of VCF-EN, I am not surprised, my former pastor did that to a friend of mine.
Now, there are several hundreds if not thousands of us who left VCF-EN, that got together. And everybody is doing well and some are extremely well spiritually. I do helped some people to get into transition of getting out VCF-EN. We exchange emails and some have blogs .
Even though that your VCF church does not practice all the horrible abuses of legalism and control. Eventually in due time, it will start creeping in. I learned that from churches that was invited to join EN-VCF. And they spoke about how the teachings start to change, the atmostphere start to change, the pastor start to become controlling and legalistic. But everything start slow. And these churches eventually have church splits.
The bible did warn us, a little leaven will leaven the whole dough. A little legalism and a little control here and there will start to creep in.
Just be aware. Do not let your guard down. I know for a fact that a few VCF pastors are resisting the control and legalism of the top church leaders and very few and rare are not afraid of speaking out. And I am surprised that some of them are the pastors own children who are speaking out ! They are speaking out against the practice !
Would VCF change their ways ? I doubt it. But it is a relief to see at least very few and rare do exist that does not practice the VCF ways.
The people who are posting here, we are all here posting by experience.
Satan maybe the grand accuser , so are the VCF pastors who are accusing of people who left VCF-EN of bitterness, unforgiveness , disobedience to the leaders or gossiping or whatever stupid things they can think of. There is absolutely no difference.
When you say Christian in EN do follow the bible. What you mean is that EN – VCF people do read their bible , pray and some tithes. But when confronted with real issue and real problems within the church, NONE can give an answer. Like example. A friend of mine was in ENLI and they were asked, if you knew that your pastor is stealing or doing fraudulent things ,what would you do? So they had to discuss that in a group. What needed to be done. so they threw in suggestions. My problem with that is that is this. What does the BIBLE SAY about it that NEEDED TO BE DONE. We don’t threw in suggestions. We go to the bible . Some would threw in that we need to submit to the leaders. And what if the leaders does not do anything ? What would you do ? And suggestions would threw in again, I mean this is in a real live ENLI group ! NONE can give a biblical simple answer.
I have confronted and counseled people , who are in and out of EN-VCF. And majority have no clue in simple biblical application on daily christian life. No clue of what Jesus would do. I mean just simple things.
Dear Sandra,
Thanks for acknowledging that it is possible to have a grace-filled EN-VCF church. 🙂
I mentioned that I came from a Catholic background. I left because of many reasons, which include legalism and the doctrine of papal infallibility. But now I’ve met with some Catholics who are Bible-based (rather than merely following their leaders or turning a blind eye to their faults), Holy Spirit-filled, and grace-filled. I hope that God would continue to our the Holy Spirit over them. I hope those who left EN would at least wish the same for EN.
About the legalism and control “eventually creeping in”, I understand why you would think that way, but I must disagree. How about the other possibility – of God’s grace and truth seeping into the other EN churches? God is Almighty, anyway. And EN was officially birthed here in Metro Manila. I’m hopeful that the problems you’re seeing are the growing pains towards the maturity that I’m seeing, instead of the other way around.
Tessa:
I am by no means saying that it’s an all or nothing deal. Or that I learned nothing good out of my EN church. I don’t believe I ever said that or implied that.
And you asked what is known as a “loaded question.” Please note your terminology. You asked if it was ok to “attack” EN. Hmmmm.
Well, let me re-phrase that for you. Is it ok to INFORM and WARN people about control, manipulation and spiritual abuse? Yup. I think it is. In fact, I think it’s a sin of omission not to.
Remember, we are not talking about YOUR church here. We’re talking about EN churches in general.
Please be wise and listen to others who have experienced abuse that you have not. Have the heart of Jesus and not the heart of a person guarding an institution (which Christ never did).
There is something wrong at EN. Period. Don’t overlook it. Address it. Don’t ask it to go away. Confront it. Don’t minimize people’s pain just because you haven’t experienced it. Embrace them. love them, have compassion on them.
If you are so dedicated to EN make yourself a liason. An ambassador. Bring all the love and compassion of Jesus that you have so clearly experienced there and apply it to those that organization has wounded.
That is how you will convince people that EN is not all bad. Certainly it won’t happen by arguing with those whom EN has hurt.
It amazes me that the reaction that “the faithful” have toward the hurt and broken is always to argue with them about their experience or try to downplay it or whatever. Just one more reason why I call it a cult. :o)
Tessa, i do not doubt that you are in one of the good EN church. Because I did been to one which is extremely rare.
1 corinthian 5 , as Paul have set an example.
manipulation, control , fraud, stealing,slandering etc. is a immoral . Even though you may be in a good EN church.
6(K)Your boasting is not good (L)Do you not know that (M)a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough?
It is not something to boast about . Its the same thing to the Catholic church. They cannot boast of being a Roman Catholic when there is wide spread of sexual abuse among children. Even though there are definitely good catholics who are working hard , doing all the good works for the poor and the neglected. Like example Mother Theresa.
And I do agree with Cathy, as christians, we have a responsibility to warn others.
1 Timothy 5 , talks about church leaders who have sinned.
17The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. 18For the Scripture says, “Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain,”[b] and “The worker deserves his wages.”[c] 19Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. 20Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.
v.20 It is a commandment of the Lord those leaders who sin ARE TO BE REBUKE PUBLICLY SO THAT OTHERS MAY TAKE WARNING.
We simply cannot downplay of whats really happening in EN – VCF in general. Is there a good church in EN, yes. But in general , looking at the whole picture, can I recommend this ministry to others ? NO. In fact , we need to tell people to stay away.
1 corinthian 5 even went further .
11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
The Word of the Lord even told me NOT TO ASSOCIATE WITH THIS MINISTRY.
2 Corinthian 6 : 14
2 Corinthians 6:14 (New American Standard Bible)
14(A)Do not be bound together with (B)unbelievers; for what (C)partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
People who commit a crime, like stealing, fraud etc. is considered lawlessness, I cannot even be partner with them nor even be a member of that church. What Partnership is righetousness and lawlessness ? What fellowship has light with darkness ?
People who call themselves christians are considered UNBELIEVERS when they commit a crime. Because true believers of Christ do not commit crime or break the law.
So there is no difference between the Roman Catholics and EN Ministry. There are good people in there and evil , wicked people in the top leadership . But then again I do not answer to the top leaders of EN ministry nor the Roman catholics any longer, I answer to God. The King of Kings. And as the Lord servant, we do have a responsibility to warn others.
And one day, when I faced the King of Kings, and I do not want the Lord to tell me, you know very well what is Written on His Word and why Have I not follow it ? Because we are all accountable and responsible of every word and everything we do. I cannot point the fingers and say because my pastor said this and that.
For you to stay in EN-VCF, knowing full well that EN-VCF in general is very bad. is your own responsibility before God. You want to obey the Lord or not that is your responsibilty. Its none of my business. I am not even going to try to convince you to leave EN-VCF. You can downplay it how great your church it, which i do not doubt.
But with me, I have a responsibility before the Lord to warn people of this ministry. And I also have a responsibility before the Lord according to His Word not to associate nor support with this ministry.
I’m an outsider looking in, but was involve in Maranatha many years ago. Simply put, you didn’t like the church Sandra and left. That’s good because it sounds like it has abuses. However, I think the Catholic doctrine is a false doctrine and by definition is a cult, but I don’t condemn them. On the contrary, there are many Christians in that church. Please learn some grace to your fellow brethen.
Friends, I am not downplaying anything. If you’ve noticed, I acknowledged the “issues” that I’ve seen too. But for most of the awful stories posted here, I cannot confirm simply because I have not seen them the churches I’ve visited, and I’ve been in EN since 2004. I am telling it like it is, and I think, so are you (Cathy and Sandra in particular). Here’s to the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Speaking of “downplaying”, by saying things like “there is good to EN but extremely rare”, who is the one downplaying things? I have friends from other EN churches too; in my view God is not “rare” here. In fairness, it might seem rare to you, especially if the only people you get to talk to are those who left. But unless you have visited and evaluated every EN local church, you and I cannot truthfully say if the good is rare or not.
Sure, it is good to warn people. By all means do so. But please be reminded that:
(1) There’s no such thing as a perfect Christian person or group.
(2) Are the issues here related to doctrine (involving all EN members), or just faulty implementation (of some)? If all the reports posted here are true, then the people involved do need to be addressed and confronted. But I am telling you that such practices are NOT happening in ALL EN churches. Since many posters here generalize for all EN members, I am merely addressing and confronting the lies being spread.
(3) It takes two to tango. Is the leader really un-Christian, or did the follower simply misunderstand? Did EN take God out of context, or is it unchecked malicious rumors that take EN out of context?
For example, Sandra brought up the issue of “required” reading four Bible chapters a day for her sister, which is just *homework* for an *optional* class for me. Sandra then shares that her sister’s leader was just motivated by a reward — so, it wasn’t really required for her sister after all, right? I agree that her sister felt unnecessary pressure, but to conclude from matters like this that EN is a cult is really stretching it. Her sister should have simply stood her ground and said, “No thanks,” or “I cannot commit to it,” instead of leaving EN and spreading false information, even if mistaken.
(Sorry to say that Sandra, and I’m sorry if your sister felt like she did, but I’m just saying this from the questions you asked me yesterday. The issues just seem to be based on misunderstanding. I want to help, but we need to get the issues straightened first.)
Please look at me simply as a sister in Christ, who’s learning and growing in Him through EN. Maybe some of you would find that hard to believe. You can contact me here or through my blog, or visit Victory Christian Fellowship in University of the Philippines, Quezon City.
Enough with the lies and the misunderstandings. For those who left, it’s time to at least hear the other side of the story first. For those who only depend on hearsay, it’s time to hear the other side as well, and better if you check things out for yourself, to decide for yourself.
I repeat: Isn’t God Almighty, that He can work through any person or group?
In my local church, we are exposed to God’s word and are encouraged to live out what we learned. When people make mistakes, others who know better can step up and confront the issue. I’ve been rebuked by my leader and by those I’m leading. (Ouch.) I’ve heard a pastor apologize before preaching for a careless statement he made the week before. I think that’s what you want from your churches too. Guess what: it’s possible and it’s happening, even in EN. 🙂
May God’s light shine brighter on us all. 🙂
Tessa, your fruit and grace are obvious. God will bless you for that.
Tessa,
I am not looking for a perfect church, the problem with VCF-EN once confronted, your excuses is always is that we are not a perfect church. There is simply no way you can address this to the top leader of VCF. I have tried that and it is foolish. Because the answer would be YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.
I have visited probably 6 EN churches at most. 2 in the phillippines and 4 in america. I was a member between 1986 VCF – year 2000 EN.
Thats 14 years. You are a member for a mere 6 years ? I have seen the abuses. I have seen the manipulation. I have seen the control. Thats why I can say, yes there are good EN churches out there but majority of it, its really wicked and evil. My sister was a member of VCF for more than 10 years. She left VCF and after she left, couple of years later, the senior pastor and his wife which are couple of friends of mine were asked to step down, due to abuses which VCF downplayed it saying they got promoted to the FORT. Everybody knows that why they were transfered. The whole church knows. Every pastor that got transfered to FORT , is simply because they have problems, from character, stealing , fraud , adultery etc. My sister did NOT spread false information which you want to believe. My sister did not leave VCF for just simply because she was being pressured to join ENLI. It was one after the other. Pastor calling, asking to be bless , money, grocery, being driven around etc. She have avoided them and even told them no. She was even told to submit to the leaders. The same pastors also defraud me financially. Now these are not my senior pastor, these are people who call me a friend. I finally told my sister to GET OUT OF THAT CHURCH ! Then she left. My senior pastor is another story. My senior pastor is the VICE PRESIDENT OF EN. And you are going to tell me that he needs to be confronted of “issues” ? Hundreds have confronted him and its always the people are the problem for the last 20 years, way before I join his church.
DID he step down, yea eventually because his DAUGHTER WAS CAUGHT SLEEPING WITH THE YOUTH PASTOR who is MARRIED WITH 3 kids ! AND he was caught stealing millions which every EN churches knows about it . And you call that rumor ? When EN communique was sent out to worldwide churches ADMITTING the whole thing ?
I also visited another EN church, where they taught my children that if they did not read their bible, they are going to hell. Thats the Pleasanton church.
I also visited another EN church, thinking maybe this would be different. And my husband took our 3 kids outside to play becasue the church is so small, they do not have kids church. So here this legalistic EN pastor start to preach that kids should learn to sit down in the church and listen to the pastor preach. Thats EN san diego. yea, we left that church also. Oh before you presume that my kids are teens, they are 2 -4 years old. How ridiculous is that to have 2 – 4 years old sit down and listen to preaching ?
Do you want me to go on ?
Now, tessa, in your 6 years of being a member, have you invested at least 6 months in another EN church ? or have you always been stuck in that EN-VCF fanstasyland church of yours ?
By the way, this is no mistake either. EN-VCF church leaders from the very top Steve Murrell, Rice BROOKEs, have also ADMITTED spiritual abuse DO exist in EN. This is after Phil Bonasso step down. AND it is in VCF-EN history, that abuse DO EXIST. And how long has it been that your church leaders have been trying to eradicate it ? 30 or more years ? Did you even read the VCF policy ? Why do you think that Steve Murrell have to insert that WE ARE AGAINST Exclusivity ? Do you think thats normal ? you don’t see that in any normal churches or ministry ONLY IN EN -VCF !
It sounds like if EN admitted to the problems and some stepped down, then they are cleansing the church. Why do you continue to persecute people who are trying to right, the wrongs? You need to learn to forgive. Never go to the church again and fine…tell people. But for goodness’ sake, why crucify people when they are obviously being punished or admitting to wrong? I’ll rebuke you for being so negative. ?Geez. give it a rest.
Oh , before you start accusing me of leaving in bitterness. No we were not bitter when we left EN, we were checking one EN to another. If we were bitter, we would have EN immedietly and did not check other EN churches. I simply felt that EN pastor, that is his church, he can preach whatever he wanted and its something that I have to protect my children from. FROM all the cultic teachings and practices. I have to shield my kids from that. Leaving all our friends and everything we know. ANd the Spirit of the Lord told us to GET OUT NOW !
I have to protect my kids spiritual growth. As a responsible parent. I will not have false teachers teachings legalistic and cultic practice to my kids. Nor will I allow these pastors to dictate how I raised my kids , which they were already doing to me while i as there unconsciously. I did not put two and two together till I got out and visited another church. A NONE EN CHURCH.
Tessa,
I finally check out your pastors, And I know them personally. Its Manny and Minnie Carlos. And I know they are the most wonderful christian people. You are blessed to have them. I was a member from the very beginning, so I know most of the senior pastors in VCF . The majority of the early ones, I have no problems with. But its the latter ones that have to kiss up to get to their position, those immature ones who are Not qualified or ready to be pastors are the bigger headaches in VCF. That are being protected by the top leadership.
But in EN america. I can testify only ONE that is a good church. That is Greg Wark. Nothing else.
Has anyone read this book? It’s amazing and will help those who have been hurt along their journey. It opened up doors of grace and forgiveness for me in an amazing way! The entire book is online for free here:
http://www.jakecolsen.com/contents.html
Cathy,
I heard that Bethel had a major church split, I have a friend who used to work in the church office. She told me all the bad things going on in there even on how the senior pastor wife would just come in and take money to go shopping.. She even posted it on factnet. And like people are not allowed to read other books other than the that stupid purple book. Everybody knows that there are two of the worst churches in EN america, thats Phil Bonasso church where I used to go to and yours. We also know how that church was stolen from another pastor. The former ORIGINAL pastor was sent away by EN gave him Greg Ball church , Greg ball left EN. Anyway,the original pastor left EN, Spoke up about the cover up of evil things in EN. I read it on his blog. I forgot what his name. That was years ago and the last thing I heard he is back in Nashville. Trying to start another church close to Bethel.
Sandra:
Did I mention which church I was at? I was in Keller, TX. Are you sure about that? I didn’t know about any of that….I’m not sure that’s the right church….
Let me know….
You mean Bethel church ? yea, that church was stolen from another pastor. Rice Brookes never started that church, in fact he never even started one on his own. The original pastor, I wished I did not forgot his name, He is very graceful and kind. Rice Brookes, as everybody knows is conniving and deceitful. Well Rice joined Bethel, As Rice charmed his way in, Rice was put in the board of directors. In 4 – 5 years, every board of directors was voted off , slowly and was replaced by Rice’s people. And finally the Original pastor was voted off. And he was sent packing and preaching other EN churches, until Greg Ball start to show some problems , so they had Greg Ball step down, gave his church to the Original Bethel pastor.
The Original Bethel pastor was warned from the beginning about Rice Brookes, there are people in there who simply does not like him. Something is off. Another had a warning dream about Rice. But the Original pastor did not listen. Thats what happened to him. He did eventually speak out against Steve M cover up of evil things. I read it on his blog years ago. If I remember, I will post it here. But I know it is still out there.
Not the Texas church Cathy, its the Bethel in Nashville Tenessee church.
I remember his name now, its pastor Ray Mccolum.
http://www.simplechurchnashville.com/
You members of EN/ considerers of membership in EN, be careful about three things:
The dating program- This is a control technique designed to use your deepest need and urge at a young age: to find your mate in life. By allowing the leaders control of your crucial search, you hand them a leash with which to manipulate you to act as they wish.
The program to promote you in the hierarchy- if you are truly called by the Christ into His Ministry, and many of you EN members actually are, EN is a severe and time-wasting diversion for your life. But until you realize the diversion, the call will be manipulated by EN leadership to make you act in ways you normally would not. This is because you long for Godly promotion; you long for God’s purposes to come to fruition in your life. If you rock the boat, disagree with the “company line” or point out hypocrisy or unscriptural programs or conduct, you are quickly and concisely reprimanded, or at least knocked down a rung or two. You will quickly sit back down and shut up, because you realize that your heart’s desire has just been delayed, and the leaders know it. That is how another particular manipulation technique works.
One other dastardly manipulation technique used in this type of “church” is the deliverance and spiritual healing sessions. The technique goes like this: You come into the fold with undesirable spiritual “baggage,” as all new Christians do. Some of your old habits, like an ungodly thought life, require that your mind needs to be renewed. This is the Holy Spirit’s job!!! But the leadership will say you need them to accomplish this in your life. So they will take you into spiritual counseling sessions, almost psychotherapy-like sessions, in which they encourage you to dredge up all sorts of stuff from your past, some real and some imaginary, and unburden it in the sessions. This is not a scriptural process, nor is it necessary for the rejuvenational work of the Holy Spirit in your heart and mind. The washing of the water (the Holy Spirit) with the Word (the Bible, God’s supernatural soap) is enough, my brother or sister! And, worst of all, once you regurgitate all your past, you may fell better and forget about it, Jesus definitely forgives you and forgets about it, but your EN counselor in leadership will never forget about what you told him or her. Like Satan, the Great Accuser of the Brethren, every time they think you need some controlling, or you ask too many questions, or you try to leave, they will bring back up all of those, your deepest and most intimate confessions, and utilize them to manipulate you! Should you break loose from their control and leave the ministry, no matter what level you have attained, they will use your confessions, from so long ago, to discredit you within your realm of influence. That way, you will have to leave alone, disgraced and abased, so that none of your EN friends will dare contact you until they too leave.
So many on these discussion boards talk about control. I thought it might be eye-opening to explain how a lot of the controlling is done.
Reason for the name change from MSI to EN is because they GOT INVESTIGATED BY THE IRS. I FOUND THAT OUT RECENTLY from somebody who handled the EN finances . Its not because they are growing up from Abram to Abraham according to Jim Lafoon. Thats a lie. Its because they do not want to be tied up with MSI. Once they register a new ministry name, the IRS gives them a new tax number. So they start fresh again. BUT the fact is that , the constant name change is that because they were investigated by the IRS constantly. For tax fraud. And its been happening since Maranatha times. So all you have to do is count how many times they change their name. The person who handled the EN finances is finally out and is talking.
I believed that all the people who posted info against this church are putting their hearts and soul against God. Your own words are the fruits of your own heart and mind. Once you accuse a Christian church as cult you are all putting yourself in the judgment of the Lord Jesus who knows your very being. You should be all ashame of being a judge to a Christian church but should pray and declare God’s truth to be manifested. Always remember Jesus is the only Way, the Truth and the Life no one can come to the Father except by HIM. Any church that preaches the true gospel of Jesus Christ is always on the side of Jesus Christ irrespective of church affiliation. Most of the former members of ANY church who became dissatisfied always accuse the church as cult but in reality God knows their very heart, mind and soul. God is the Witness and will be your Righteous Judge.
Amen Allan. You got it right brother!
Allan,
A true church of Christ does not involved itself with fraudulent things. The bible said do not be oke with unbelievers > what partnership is LAWLESSNESS and Righteousness. Lawlessness is unalwful things. Paul consider people who does illegal activity or unlawful things as UNBELIEVERS. NOW, Every Nation Minsitry have ADMITTED of doing illegal things. So that ministry of yours is not of God. Why don’t you asked your pastor of the communique that was send out to ALL the churches. How they cannot even balance their books and how these top pastor are overpaid according to to their own independent accounting . In fact, how about ask them what transpired in 2007 of january, how the top leaders ADMITTED of the MISUSE of funds in front of the world wide leadership conference . Thats when all these churches, worldwide started leaving this ministry.
Is this what Jesus wants His church to represent ? a culture of fraud ?
How about asking the admittance of control and legalism exist throughout EN ministry ? this was done in 2007 in Los Angeles Ca, Fred Bradford church. Get your fact straight first Allan.
I am a fomer member and employee of Every Nation, Tallahassee. Most importantly, and am a child of God and a firm believer that every single word in the Bible is 100% inspired Word of God and true.
I can only attest for Every Nation, Tallahassee, but that church is not a cult. I know from my personal experience that God called me out of my atheistic, suicidal, lesbian lifestyle, specifically to Every Nation Tallahassee, and used that church to turn my life around. I can’t say anything for Every Nation as a whole, but to label Every Nation a cult and to umbrella everything you say against Every Nation, you are saying that every single church that is a part of Every Nation has those issues, which is far from true.
A church is not an organization. A church is a body of believers, meaning every single person in that church is part of the church. When a church has problems, it’s because someone in the church has problems, most often more than one person. I can understand that, because no one on Earth is or ever will be perfect. As much as you don’t like hearing that, it’s true.
Having the opportunity to work deep in the church, I got to know every one of the Pastors, I attended all the meetings, I know the ‘behind the scenes’. Specifically at the Tallahassee location, no one conspires like that. They’re not controlling, manipulative, etc. like I keep hearing and when they are, it is our duty as christians to go to them and rebuke them. Read for yourselves how we are instructed to do so in the Bible.
No one is beyond correction. Not the Pastors, not the members, not you, not me. You’re forgetting grace. I don’t need to tell you the multiple scriptures on gossip and forgiveness and love. Take Proverbs 17:9 for example: “He who covers over an offense promotes love, but whoever repeats the matter separates close friends.” That doesn’t sound to me like what you are doing. I understand your desire to ‘warn people’, but spreading slanderous and harmful words are NOT the way to do that.
I don’t doubt that everything you guys are saying about personal experience is true, and God very well may have told you to get out of that church, but you are refusing to acknowledge the good that comes out of Every Nation. Just remember what Jesus told us to do. John 15:12: “My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.” That’s a big statement. Ask yourselves if you’re fulfilling it.
Peace and grace,
Lauren
Hmmm, another bottom feeder. Another one that does not know her bible .
Paul himself have said to warn people and Paul himself made an example of Peter. And it is written all over the book of Galatians.
To say that “spreading slandarous and harmful words” , it is an example of a bottom feeder cover up. Lauren if you truly are behind the scenes, then you would have read ALL OF THE COMMUNIQUE that was sent out by EVery Nation Ministry. That is including the MISUSE of FUNDS. And Rice Brookes own words of the EXISTENCE OF CONTROL in EVERYNATION MINISTRY that was spoken in Los Angeles CA.
I was trying to give you grace Sandra, but you just plain sound evil now. I pray for you that God will heal you of your bad experience. You have turned nasty and have gone way past trying to get the “word out”. My goodness, something has gotten control over you still. I rebuke it’s hold over you.
And, if EN admits it, why do you continue to harp about it and not forgive? I just don’t get it, except that sometime negative has overtaken you. I pray for you, though this is almost 3 years later. I’m just astonished at all of your malice and it helps me to get it out. I hope this changes by the time I finish reading this.
Sandra,
I’m sorry if you misunderstood me, but I tried to make it clear I couldn’t account for the heads of Every Nation Ministries, and that I was talking specifically about Every Nation Tallahassee and my personal experience.
I’m sharing my experience, just like the rest of the people on the thread. In my experience, some of the individual Every Nation churches, apparently including some in the Philippines, are not a part of the controlling discipleship and characteristics of EN ministries.
I’m truly sorry you’ve had the experiences you’ve had with the church, and again, I believe that what you are saying is true. I just know that this isn’t the way to go about it, based on all the scriptures pointing to love, peace, and grace. Paul does rebuke Peter. But he does it with direct confrontation. I don’t know your situation, I only know what the Bible says to be true. “Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable–if anything is excellent or praiseworthy–think about such things.” Philippians 4:8
Peace and grace,
Lauren
Lauren,
are you familiar with this scripture ? The bible CLEARLY said this.
2 Corinthians 6:14 (New American Standard Bible)
14(A)Do not be bound together with (B)unbelievers; for what (C)partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
Paul consider people who ARE doing (LAWLESSNESS) ILLEGAL Activities as UNBELIEVERS. NOT christians. WE SHOULD NOT EVEN HAVE FELLOWSHIP with THESE Kind of people.
You cannot even be a PART of that ministry. You can’t even be members.
What kind of a church that fellowship or even partner with a ministry that does ILLEGAL THINGS ? That is not something to BOAST about.
That church of yours should be ashamed of being a member of that ministry.
1 corinthian 5
But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[c] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
Every Nation ministry leaders are KNOWN for their greed , slander and swindling people’s money. just read the communique that was send out. AND here Paul forbade christian to even hang out with them.
Paul rebuke the Corinthian church for OVERLOOKING these sins. Like what you are doing.
I guess this means none of us can be a member of any church, since sin exists in every one. Wow. You’re going a little overboard on this hun.
The bible did say whatever noble,whatever is true, whatever is pure, whatever is right think of these things.
Now, my question is this, are those illegal activities Noble ? or Pure or true or is it right to do these things ?
As I have always said before, EN-VCF have always taken scriptures OUT of Context. There is a saying, You are what you eat. If you eat spiritual junk food or garbage. Then that will show on your spiritual life and will also show in your natural life. And so far in the last 30 years of this ministry, junk and spiritual garbage have always shown. Fraud, greed , slander.
And anybody who listen to these type of leadership also have shown these kind of junk in their lives. You are what you eat. Cover up is not something noble nor spiritual.
Look up “proof texting” online.
The Bible also says it’s okay to stone people and have slaves.
The Bible also says to love justice and to do what is right.
The Bible NEVER instructs us to hide abuse or misuse of power.
Every Nation and VCF leaders and its members systematically ACCUSED people of slander and Gossip like Lauren does. And there are already people like me who could care less about how these people think. Their old system of systematically accusing people of slander and gossip does not work any longer that is why we are considered “dangerous” in there. People like Lauren would take ONE or TWO scriptures, interpret it then make it into doctrine that whoever EXPOSED AND CRITICIZED their leadership or its ministry are considered “gossiper”. When you take a look at the WHOLE GOSPEL it will not SUPPORT its FALSE VIEW and DOCTRINES. Hence, Jesus call them BLIND GUIDES.
Jesus CLEARLY SAID this. John 11
36 Therefore, if your whole body is full of light, and no part of it dark, it will be just as full of light as when a lamp shines its light on you.”
Is there DARKNESS in Every nation Ministry and VCF ? ABSOLUTELY YES. GOD Constantly shine HIS LIGHT and SHOWS what is truly in man. The illegal activities, fraud, slander . lies etc.
People like Lauren should read ACTS 8:1
1 And Saul approved of their killing him
Though PAUL did not kill Stephen, Paul APPROVES of what they have DONE. Like Lauren and the rest who are defending EN-VCF, APPROVES what these EN-VCF are doing by being part of that ministry.By Giving their offerings and tithes. And by being even a member. They APPROVE of what these people are doing in there.
There is no where in the bible that said that if we ever speak up and EXPOSED evil things is considered a slander or GOSSIP. Like LAUREN DID another MISUSE OF SCRIPTURES Taken out of CONTEXT. An old game that does not work any longer. They think “Shaming” will work, well it does not. Shaming people by accusing them of gossip or slander does not work. its an old devil’s religious work. The Pharasees tried that on Jesus, it just blow up on their faces.
STEALING, SLANDER , FRAUD, LACK of INTEGRITY , Lack of Honor ALSO CAUSED Division Lauren, not just words. Who who covers Offense promotes love alright, But does covering stealing, lack of integrity, fraud, systematically accusing people of slander and gossip inside and outside of the ministry and church , do those promote love ???
As I said it again, another bottom feeder who does not know her bible.
Wow. Lauren didn’t say what you said she did. She’s not covering anything up. Again, I’m an outsider looking in and wow… you have become so bitter and caught up in the fight, that you have forgotten what you are fighting for. I pray for you. I truly do. I hope this ends ok.
Sandra,
I’ve read most of your posts here and I could only say amen to it. since I had to go through mostly the same things you gone through. I’ve been in a church in Japan who preached a cross of Christ centered old school message at first at early 90’s. And then after the church joined Morning Star Ministries at 1999-2000, it started to draw away from a Christ centered message to a Church organization centered message. I remember Joey Bonifacio and his guru’s comming as a VIP guest speaker preaching prosperity gospel saying that the more you give money the more you will be financially blessed by God. He boasted how he was poor before and he started to give his money and possesions to the church and then he became rich owning a huge house near a golf course. I was decieved during that time and so where most of the church members. And then I remember our church started VLI classes and allowing only people who finished this class to be part of church ministry. Praise the Lord I never had a chance to take this class but my dad who took this class expecting it to be an old school typical Bible Study said that it was nothing but a Sales Man training class using some scriptures to sell the church to people.
And then the church started to teach “Obey the leaders or pastors even if they are wrong”. Most of the people in that church accepted this but somehow in my heart, growing up in an church that preached old school Bible messages, I knew that there’s something wrong with this teaching. But since I was still biblically ignorant, I wasn’t able to pinpoint what’s wrong with this teaching yet. But I tried to talk to the pastor bringing this concern about this teaching. He tried to convince me using a scripture that says “Obey the Authority” and justifying that false teaching. In my heart, I knew that that is not what the Holy Spirit is telling me so I couldn’t agree with the pastor so I basically got kicked out from that church. It hurted me a lot at first cuz that’s the church where I spent most of my highschool days but I praise the Lord now that He has set me free from that deception.
By the way, these are some other odd stuff the EN church in Japan teaches or did during when I was there….
“If God tells you to do something and the Pastor tells you to do something else, you should obey the pastor. ” – I couldn’t believe my ears when I heard the associate pastor telling me this false hoodness.
There were spies that reports to the pastor or leader what you do and say about the church or pastor in that church. This was really discusting.
You weren’t allowed to fellowship with other churches. You need permission from the pastor if you really needed to.
Dating requires approval from Pastor. Even marriage needs to be approved by the pastor. Although it helped some people who couldn’t get married on thier own. lol
They have this “One to one” book which is like an instruction manual for the church memebers on how to bring people to church. This is so much like the mormon’s strategy.
The church were so obsessed with the word “Family” or “church” until when they ex communicate you, they treat you as if you never existed. (Which works just great for me though lol)
the last thing I heard about Joey Bonifacio is that his businessess FAILED. I was also told that a lot of businessmen are avoiding him because he cannot be trusted with his words. Perhaps lack of integrity. I met a few of the businessmen and none would vouch for him. Everybody is avoiding him. The prosperity message does not work any longer , so now VCF – EN ministry is trying to liken themselves with “calvary Chapel”. Yet, VCF pastors are still being pressured to raised money for the ministry. So they still preach the prosperity gospel. Using guilt tactic and manipulation so people would give. The word that they often used, Just trust the pastors or Obey the authority does not work here any longer in the USA. Because all of the top leadership of EN were STEALING and committing fraud. Stealing hence DIVERSION OF MISSION FUNDS , BUILDING FUNDS etc. to their pockets. Nobody is falling for that one. They tried that again in VCF and a few churches had some CHURCH SPLIT. It simply not going to work any longer.
If the Japanese EN fall for that, then they are a bunch of fools. Because nobody here in the USA are falling for that any longer.
I go to an EN church in the Philippines and we are not a cult. We were never commanded not to do this or that. How ever we are reminded by our pastors and etc to follow the teachings of Christ.
Kristine, telling people in the church to “Just follow the leaders without question” is NOT following Christ teaching.
1 corinthian 5
But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[c] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
if your church is following Christ teaching, why is it associating with EN ?
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Mariakani via Mombasa kenya.
Kristine,
Maybe VCF pastors do not order or command people from the church directly. However what will these pastors/leaders do if you do not obey or submit their advices? There is unspoken word or rules that exist and you will never know it until you breaks them.
Example, pastors tell people it is not forbidden to enter into relationship specially when you are still a student. My friend is part of the worship team, when the leaders discovered that he has a girlfriend, they kicked him out of the ministry without explaining, we just learned that my friend is not scheduled anymore from playing instruments.
While on the other hand, other players have girlfriends and the pastor allowed it because according to the leadership they are spiritually covered and under their discipleship. They can’t remove them because their parent’s is one of the big givers of the church. Talk about double standard. And pastors tell people that such policy does not exist. I heard they now allow courtship even if you are still in the youth ministry, simply because this kind of issues exploded and they can’t deny it anymore.
Sad to say there are people who hide and deny what’s really happening just to protect the ministry.
It’s really saddens me to see these things discussed but we don’t go to the root of the problem… I recently listened to a hebrew scholar’s teaching on cain and the pattern of the firstborn and he recallls that the action of taking something that don’t belong to you and destroying the design of it to where it is not functional is ra in hebrew which means wickedness. Moreover, it’s a proptotype of cain who was the first to take something that didn’t belong to him and destroyed it… moreover in the levitical law you cannot mix seed… remeber YAshua sowed the good seed and there is only one good seed. At EN the seed is the leaders word b/c they have to be the head or god. This is a picture of Egypt and Pharaoh. As I have told people pharaoh had to rule the people, didn;t let YHVH’s people so they could serve him, this is exactly the pattern of EN and EGYPT. They told people they couldn’t leave, they wanted you for life.. They lived vicariously through you by making merchandise of you to build THEIR OWN KINGDOM… Anyone who is stupid enough to defend these antichrists YOU deserve them because the the same seed that is IN THEM IS IN YOU… Let every tree bear fruit of its own kind the seed that is in itself… There teaching that you wholeheartedly unconditionally surrender to them is satanic at root……YHVH states we obey him not man….. Rice Broocks along with others literally run to and fro througout the earth taking things that don’t belong to you.ie churches…People in america need to wake up b/c christians talk about how satanic abortion is but let me tell you the leaders at Everynation ministry are murderers too! Taking something that don’t belong to you and DESTROYING THE DESIGN OF SOMETHING especially when it’s at it’s infant stage is FREAKING SICK AND SADISTIC….
YHVH never planted these group but he evil one did… He sowed his seed… It is not a coincidence that people have come out of this cult of death with bi polar, pstd, ect because YHVH will have to uproot the evil seed, ie leaders words and then plant HIS SEED. However in that process when He is trying to plant his seed, he can’t do that b/c You can’t mix seed. ie, levitical law unless your field will be defiled…..
The Church is held together by the Holy Spirit and it is amazing that the grace of God really works. You see people excited about God and the Holy Spirit keeps the people coming. No matter what is preached, no matter what songs are sung – God does great things, people are saved and healed and delivered.
But sometimes people control the church using heavy shepherding methods. This is when leaders begin to assume the role of the Holy Spirit. The fellowship then becomes somewhat artificial because the Holy Spirit is missing. Spiritual abuse can occur, where people are manipulated through psychological domination.
There are sad cases where a genuine Holy Spirit created church forms into a controlling church. Normally it is because the people are not awake to pray away these temptations and the leaders fall into this trap.
This is always a danger during a powerful move of God, or when the leaders themselves are not prayerful in their endeavours. This can occur if somebody else in the church has prayed the revival into existence and the Pastor begins to take credit for the work instead of remaining focused on God.
Another danger is when people through lack of prayer and faith in God to move, begin to find fault and criticize the preaching, the leaders or the organisation instead of believing God. They can become vocal in their attacks and draw people away from simple faith in God.
We need to guard against unbelief in God, leading to a lack of prayer. We need to guard against speaking against other people or entertaining any faith-killing suggestions such as fault-finding. Following these two rules we will, through the Holy Spirit, not encounter any sad cases of manipulation and the work of God will be free to continue.
http://www.SabbathTemple.com
@sandra, you mention a lot of talk about fraud. i know you were a member there for 14 years, so you have seen and experienced a lot with this ministry. but, i was wondering if there was some sort of news article or something like that, which mentions the aforementioned fraud, theft, and illegal activity. i’m not saying i don’t believe you, or that i do. i just want to be able to refer to something more concrete than someone posting on an internet forum, you know, do a little research outside of this message board.
you also mentioned in your 6/30 post that rice broockes basically “stole” a church. can this event be found in any sort of publication or another blog, anything?
M,
The FBI interviewed me and I submitted the documents to them. And I also have send it to the IRS. According to the FBI, the document that i have is IRS Jurisdiction. I spoke with a former banker who handled the EN finances, and she told me that IRS DID investigate them and they did PAY Penalty for tax fraud, hence that is why they change their name from MorningStar to Every nation Ministry. Everytime they change name , the IRS gives them a new tax number, they do not want to be affiliated or connect to the old number. AND Rice Brookes church used to belong to Ray maccolum.
As a college student considering joining an EN church, I am taking each of these posts into great consideration. Before joining a church I like to research them so I can be sure I know what I’m getting into. I was told, by the pastor, that the men who started EN were leaders in Maranatha (which goes against the idea that EN tries to hide its ties). Since then, I have been looking all over the web for info about EN and its affiliates.
As of now, after attending an EN church for a few weeks, I have not witnessed anything like what those who are against EN are saying (that’s not to say they aren’t true). I have invited two non-Christian friends to come with me to church and a class on Christianity and what this specific church believes. The non-Christians were welcomed with open arms. Actually, the pastors seem to cater their messages to possibility of a non-Christian attending the service. I am currently dating someone, and no one in the church has had even a remote negative response to our relationship. They all embrace it. There is also a recently engaged person in the congregation, who was dating before he was engaged, and he was a part of the group that started this particular church. The pastor and his wife also dated for quite some time, even after they were members in EN. I have also witnessed one of the members being prayed out because she had to leave for personal reasons. The church did not admonish her, but rather wished her the best.
As the daughter of two pastors, and someone who is very interested in the academic side of Christianity and pays close attention to the doctrine taught at churches, I have also not heard anything unbiblical. I specifically look for the message of Jesus Christ’s death and resurrection as being the importance of each sermon (it is after all the foundation of Christianity). So far, I have been pleased with the sermons. Even while speaking with the pastor, he mentioned the importance of the gospel of Jesus Christ being the essence of every story in the Bible.
While I have received wonderful vibes from this specific EN church, I do not take the above accusations lightly. My only problem with the accusations is the evidence behind them. Not discounting anyone’s personal story, but I am not fully convinced of the cultish activity in EN. One of the earlier posts mentioned EN telling members what movies to watch, music to listen to, etc. Although, a pastor should not force members to do something, he/she should warn them of possible effects. As a child (even on into middle school), my mother would not allow my siblings and I to watch any movie that had magic or witches or ghosts or anything of the ilk. This was not because she was trying to control us, but rather protect us. I grew up in a town where witchcraft and other demonic influences were very prevalent, so movies with these sorts of influences did not seem spiritually enhancing. I, personally, also believe one should be aware of the music he/she listens to. Music with explicit lyrics all about sex can corrupt the mind, especially the minds of youth. We, as youth and young adults, look up to many of the singers, actor, etc of the time. It is important that what we see and hear be positive. Of course, one should be able to determine what he/she feels is compromising, but if you have not been a Christian, any of those things could be compromising. Is it not the church’s responsibility to warn of these things? With that said, I understand how this can all seem controlling, so I think there should definitely be a focus on personal choice.
In general, sorry to play devil’s advocate, I feel many of the ant-EN arguments can be torn apart. I guess what I’m looking for as I make my decision is hard evidence, not generalizations or heresy, but facts. What have you personally and specifically seen that would make EN appear to be unbiblical and cultish?
Ivy,
Thanks for posting.
Dis you say that you’ve only been at an EN church for a few weeks? That’s hardly enough time to see what a church is really like/about. At least in my experience, places that exert a lot of top down control are very inviting towards new people and often seem great. Large movements typically aren’t going to come after the new people with the crazy, so to speak.
Exactly, which is why I am requesting more evidence. I am a person who once in a church gets involved in that church. I feel a specific calling towards the youth, so if I decide to join this church it won’t be long before I start looking for ways to get youth more involved in the church. I don’t want to wait until I’m already involved to find out I’m in a cult. Thus, I would like to know before hand, because I couldn’t bare to just leave the youth hanging while I go and find a different church.
One may ask, why risk it then? Why go to a church whose parent organization has so much controversy? Well, I have thus far, been well fed spiritually, something that I have been searching for in the area. This church has also sparked the interest of my non-Christian friends. Though I know the church is not fully responsible for that (I have been praying for them for a while and have been able to see how God has been working over the past year), I do think the church is in a position to truly minister to them and bring them to Christ. Before I go back into the search of a church that feeds me and is also a welcoming environment for my non-Christian friends, I need to be sure that I’m doing the right thing.
On a different note, my experiences so far have some specific points that counter some (not all) of the points against EN. While I understand that the church would not show its “ugly head” in the beginning, some of the instances would not have been as blatantly stated but rather covered up and addressed later, once I’d been involved in the church more. It would not makes sense for the church, and pastor, to say things that specifically counter their beliefs. While the pastor/church may think that I would forget things said now, considering the environment we’re in, that’s a very risky assumption, and I don’t think a cult would take that risk.
It is possible that this specific church chooses to overlook some of the regulations stipulated in EN, which would explain my experience thus far.
I should also mention that this pastor did not go to the Every Nation Leadership Institute
Hi Ivy, I was a member for 15 years and did saw the abuses firsthand. THOUGH , not all EN pastors are abusive but it is a very rare. Example the former pastor here in Pleasanton , his name is Garry Senna, he is not abusive. There are a few who are not abusive. But majority are. It sort of like taking risk which one you want to go to. if you want to be fed of God’s Word, then EN is not for you. Majority of their teachings are coming from the legalistic, religious point of view. You won’t grow spiritually. When I say legalism, it means, they do based it on the bible but in a religous way. Like example the bible said, the letter kills but the Spirit gives Life. The legalistic view of the scripture will only kills your spirit. The Holy Spirit is pretty much absent on all the EN churches. They do claim that they have the Holy Spirit based on “tongues” and “prophesy” . But absent on dream interpretation, interpretaion of tongues, healing, signs, wonders and miracles , all the supernatural things happening that the bible describe, it is simply does not exist in any of EN churches. On 2006 or earlier, I forgot what this Australian Apostle/prophet name, was in Hawaii, so is Jim Laffoon, their top prophet. The Apostle, confronted Jim Laffoon on the stage, 3000 people. On a conference, prophesied to him that all of the churches he affiliated with is dead. After a year, sex and financial scandal broke out here in EN Ministry. Think of this way, if you are giving your offerings to the church, and your church is tithing and sending the offerings to the top leaders of EN, and these EN leaders are using these money for their luxury instead of actually sending it to the Misson fields as they stated, how would you feel ? The bible said, do not be yoke with unbelievers, what partnership is there with righteousness and lawlessness. What they are doing is illegal, its lawlessness, as Christians, and a child of God, I cannot be part of that. I cannot be part of a ministry that does illegal things. Thats what the bible said. Let just say your current pastor is not doing anything illegal and he is a wondering EN pastor. What is he doing being part of that ministry ? All EN pastors knew about the illegal activities that was exposed, the top leaders admitted it on early January 2007 In a leadership conference. Majority of churches left EN ministry. A few stayed. To me, I do not care of the pastors decision to stay or go, thats between them and God. My decision is to leave, I need to have a clear conscience before the Lord. Its really a personal decision for you and the Lord for you to stay or go. Its up to your conscience. Majority of us, we want to have a clear conscience. We left. I want to walk blameless before the Lord. and walk in Honor of His Word. And as I said, I am pretty sure your EN pastor is a good one.
Thanks Sandra! I appreciate, and will fully consider, your testimony.
Ivy, At this current time, Where Revival has started to break out here in California and part of midwest and some in East Coast. I would strongly suggest to go to where Revival EXIST. Where signs, wonders, miracles are actually happening. Physical Healing is the major signs of the revival that is happening in churches. People are getting slain in the Spirit in these churches. I remember visiting the church I am going to now, I saw people laying down on the floor. Thats when i said , thats what I want where the Spirit of the Lord is being manifested. People would walk in the church and immedietly, sometimes nobody was laying hand on them, They just get slain by just walking in. Majority of those churches, have the TRUE WORD of God being preach, no legalism. Although, worship is an hour in all churches that have revival. And a lot of people would be yelling, some who are not used to these kind of supernatural manifestation would walk away, rejecting being offended and not understanding whats happening. In an EN churches, pastors would tell people to “behave”. The Spirit of The Lord would then leave, leaving the church dry and dead. In EN churches, these pastors believe that the Manifestation of the Holy Spirit needs to be “controlled”. Now, if somebody get slain, yelling, giggling , or start to roll around the floor , any type of manifestation of the Holy Spirit according to EN pastors, these need to be controlled. In any of the churches that have revival, where Physical healing exist, these are NOT CONTROLLED nor rebuked. Then you will also see , once in a while angels flying by or angels start to sing within your midst during worship. Personally, I have seen heavenly host and heard angels sing during worship. A few times, you will see these heavenly host start to visit your home . I am talking by experience.IN EN churches, they talk about they have to have “order” in the church. But God’s Order and Man’s religious order is two different things. Man;s order is like having a beautiful garden, where Roses are supposed to be in one place, vegetable garden in one plot, daffodils in one plot, tulips in one plot, these is man’s order of the church. While God’s order is that you look at the Forest, where anything grows. Its chaotic , messy and its GOD. AND churches that have revival is exactly like that, everything is led by the Spirit of the Lord not by man. There are a few preachers /teachers that I would recommend. Rick Joyner, Bill Johnson , Randy Clark, Heidi Baker , these are a few. They woulld help you grow up in the Lord. There are a lot of christians who would reject them, calling it Latter Rain etc. Calling them heretic and all. My suggestion is to listen and let your spirit be the judge. Listen to Bill Johnson on youtube . try that and see how he would blow your mind with His teaching of the Word.These people are moving in the right direction where it is Spirit led.
In this 2 year old story, I now see where you are coming from Sandra. You want to be on an emotional or spiritual “high”. Actually, this is one of the things Maranatha was accused of. Wanting people to be on that high. That’s actually false doctrine. So, EN cleaned up its act (in it’s former name) and that doesn’t seem good enough. Paul clearly says that not all tongues are genuine. That’s where EN was coming from. That doesn’t mean they are controlling.
Unfortunately playboy or playgirl.. once your considered and labeled a cult you will always have that label; because of the destructiveness of cults people don’t forget; like a porn star and alcoholics as well; once you have even did a small scene in porn you are a porn star;
Again, I fully understand that there is a possibility that the church I’ve been visiting is one of the rare exceptions (and I do not excuse it if its leadership is unbiblical), but I have heard any legalistic talk from the pastor or anyone else at the church. The pastor also told a story of how someone with back issues was healed during one of their prayer times and a person ( a non-Christian) who witnessed this chose to give his life to Christ that night. Of course the pastor could be lying, but there were other people who testified to the same miracle. Freedom in worship does not seem to be condemned. I know I sing loudly in church, and I don’t usually sing what the person leading worship is singing. I harmonize, ad-lib, whatever I feel. No one has complained, but rather complimented me on my voice. So to say that in an EN church I would not see fruit or feel the holy spirit does not connect with me (yet). Sorry, I really am playing devil’s advocate here.
Thanks you for suggesting some ministers to listen to. Unfortunately, I don’t live on the East Coast, nor do I find the same spiritual growth from listening to sermons online (though they’re great for days when I can’t go to church).
I think it’s awesome that your church has such a revival going on! My only problem with that (for my environment and with my human knowledge) is that I’m not sure how comfortable non-believers would feel there. If a non-believer does not feel like he/she could go to my church, I’m not sure if I could go there. Of course, God is great, and could reveal himself to that person the very first time he/she visited, but then how much harder will it be for me to get other people to come. One of the hardest things for me is ministering to people and inviting them to church without them feeling like im trying to convert them (though in reality I am). While I love them and will continue to love them even if they don’t choose to follow Christ, they cry of my heart is that they would. As a Christian I would love to come into a church and see people falling out for Christ, but I l know for a fact, that my non-believer friends would be scared and off put and probably would not return to church with me. And (not saying that your church doesn’t do this, it just wasnt mentioned), I need a church that can appeal to academia, a church that can engage my heart as well as my mind which will both lead to an engaged spirit and spiritual growth.
I suppose this is why I have enjoyed this EN church. It appeals to my mind. It is one of the only churches I’ve been to in the area that demonstrates the Bible’s logical flow and how it makes sense. At the same time, it pulls at my heart and challenges me to do more for the Kingdom.
I am fully aware of my more “pro-EN” tone. This is intentional. My hope is that upon feeling my tone, others with more testimonies of the scandals of EN would speak up. Change my mind, change my tone.
The way we “evangelized” to non christian is different. We gave them word of knowledge or physical healing or dream interpretation. These are a common things we do. We show them what the Power of God does. We let the Holy Spirit do its work. Example Bill Johnson, a teacher of the Word , his church is now at 15,000 members and still growing , he trained his entire church to heal people. And eventually got the entire city of Redding Ca. in Revival. . Heidi baker who is connected to bill Johnson Ministry , Her ministry is known for raising more than 500 people from the dead. Surpassing healing already, they are raising people from the dead. Randy Clark who also does the same thing, is known for healing ministry and finally his ministry got one person raised from the dead here in America. Rick Joyner also is known for his teaching gifts, healings and visitation of angels. The church I am going to now is affiliated with Bill Johnson church. We are seeing thousands upon thousands of people getting healed and this has become very common in churches here. Kids with down syndrome, autism, retardation, blind, lame etc. The goal is never to add them to church, the goal is to experience His love. THEN let the unbelievers decide if they want to come. Now, if a person got healed , normally, on their own, they would want to come to church. Word of knowledge and Dream interpretation does the same thing. With Bill Johnson, they are well known to be in the Shopping Mall and people would go there to get healed in public. People would literally go to Mall and look for them there. Got healed, got saved there then come to church. We literally go out to the public and evangelized.
Now, I get it. You’ve joined with the old Maranatha clan. They were unhappy about those who saw the negativity and shut it down and formed EN. So, it sounds like you’re being led by those with an old beef. Interesting. I wish I had read all of this 2 years ago. lol
There is definitely freedom of Worship in EN , You can sing as loud as you want, thats not the problem there. Try giving a Word of Knowledge or prophesying to someone , see what EN leaders will do. Or even try to disciple somebody , see what they will do. They will definitely love you if you bring somebody to church. It is when you start to step out of “norm”, then see whats the difference. Will they try to use you for their own agenda Or will they try to tell you NOT to do this or that. Just see what they do, if they do nothing, then thats great. Try to take some risk, something out of ordinary. To Supernatural things.
I forgot to mention that I do the dream interpretation, whether unbelievers or believers. God speaks to them in dreams.
That’s great!
Hello Ivy please read above my comments although not always cohesive but read above about Pharaoh and EN being a prototype of Egypt. If you recall Yashua sowed the good seed. There is only one good seed and that is the messiah. If someone comes to you and tries to add ot or take away from that then they are corrupting the good seed. Its a pciture of the levitical law that states you cannot sow your field or vineyard which diverse seed or it must be burned….. Do not allow the enemy to corrupt the good seed which is the word of God. If God tells you something then do it regardless of what the leaders state…. And with all due respect, Yashua the messiah has not planted this ministry so again why are you going there… If Yashua hasn’t planted them then that means the enemy has done so… I can email you some incite that the Lord has shown me prophetically how this ministry, speficially Broocks and Bonasso follow the pattern of the firstborn which is Cain…. Cain’s name means to acquire but it implies taking something that doesn’t belong to you… He’s a murderer which means in hebrew though He destroyed the purpose or design of something which is what we say in hebrew ra, ie wikedness. It means to destroy the purpose of something. So, say YHVH had a plan for you to go to a particular school and the EN leaders didn’t approve it then they would intimidate and utilize coercive measures to osolate you to feel bad and just rape your mind until you understood who the “leader” ie pharaoh was and they were in charge. So thereforre because YHVH’s word cannot prevail because you have not obeyed him but man instead, they have corrupted the good seed by destroying life or the purpose of it. this is what the name satan means in hebrew. It means to surround life and destroy it….
Hello Sandra, Ivy… I’ve been reading this thread and your exchanges were particularly interesting to me. I’ve been attending EN church here in the Philippines for about 5 years. Btw, I come from another full-gospel, pentecostal organization, and I became a regular at this EN church due to change of residence. I agree with Ivy about her observation. EN preachings appeal to the mind, and are even biblically sound. In all my 5 years listening to the preaching (btw, the topics or guidelines for the sermons are cascaded from the top hierarcy and these are what the local pastors preach to their congregations, that’s what I heard)….. In all my 5 years attending this church I have never encountered any doctrine that is unsound or controversial. I also have to say that I have never noticed any abuse or heard of anybody in this church abusing anybody. Believe me, I have made many friends in this church, and they are all God-fearing, bible-believing church members who are sincere like me. We pray together, eat together and enjoy each other’s company.
But I also have to be honest to myself because in all of my five years with this church 1) how come I don’t feel comfortable with the workers even if they are nice and respectful? 2) how come I don’t sense the Holy Spirit in the worship services? even if the worship team is doing all the “right” things? 3) How come they teach the value of speaking in tongues only in special discipleship classes, and not in the general congregation? And I doubt if these leaders really practice praying in the spirit in their private lives? 4) How come my pastor never encouraged me to join the ministry even if I have been in his cell group for about 5 years? Was he afraid I am going to learn something that is not ordinarily taught to ordinary members? I later learned after 5 years that in order to join a church ministry i needed to attend a “victory weekend” – a 2-day kind of advanced discipleship program. Really I am planning to attend this one because I would like to get serious with God. But now I am having second thoughts. I have been putting aside this “uncomfortable” feeling for 5 years. I don’t even feel comfortable inviting my friends to attend this church, even if i already have many friends here.
Now I feel that something fishy is really going on. I feel that the leaders of this organization are not telling us everything they know. After reading this thread, i now suspect that they are hiding something. I even asked God why it’s only now that He is allowing me to know all of these? Why was I kept from knowing the background of this organization from the beginning? I don’t understand at all. But I know God is good and I still thank him for exposing the hidden face of this organization to me. Now, I don’t want to go back to this church anymore. I feel guilty for letting my kids join this church and that I didn’t have enough discernment. RAther, I had discernment but I failed to act correctly. But anyway I still thank Him because it’s not too late. Now I think about all my friends who are still with this organization. God give me wisdom.
Pepe, unfortunately a lot of phillippine churches are affected by EN teachings. Where the Holy Spirit is kick out. I asked a friend if there is any church in the phillippines that believe and practice in the literally moving of the Holy Spirit , where the Holy Spirit truly moves. He gave me one church, he said, the name is Church SO Blessed. Thats the name of the church. Here the Holy Spirit is honored and respected. http://www.churchsoblessed.com
Try that church and see if the Holy Spirit is present.
Though Speaking of tongues has value , so is interpretation of tongues, interpretation of dreams , healing , angelic visitation , Holy Spirit visitation ,prophecy , prophetic songs, prophetic dance etc. All of them held equal value and has to be present in the church. . The only reason why EN ministry hold value only on speaking of tongues is simply because this is the only thing the CAN Control. There is one problem though, you CANNOT CONTROL the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit moves, there is MASSIVE healing in the church , angels start to show up, you will hear angels sing in the midst. People getting into trance or the bible calls it OPEN VISION …. things like this cannot be controlled, only the Holy Spirit can do this not man. People getting slain, those things cannot be controlled or forced by man. So when man control in small things, they will control in big things. I have a filipino friend who have experienced and OPEN VIsion already and it is very exciting for her to see Massive army of angels . She kept rubbing her eyes but it was there in front of her. Another time she saw a massive angel in front of her then she got slain. She lives in Alabang . And all these happened AFTER she left EN ministry. Small children should know what to do when the Holy Spirit showed up. They are supposed to move and lay hands on people, people get healed. Some get slain. I am talking about 5 year old kids during church service. The Holy Spirit have already left EN ministry years ago. I visited it last 2006 and I noticed the Holy spirit is absent even during worship time in a phillippine EN church I knew something is wrong. Once the Holy Spirit is not present in the church, church is dead and its purpose is OVER. its destiny is OVER. Try the church so blessed and see if the Holy Spirit is there. Not all people wanted the Presence of The Lord though. But those who do will see a blessing in their lives . They are the ones who will see the Supernatural things that we yearn for. There is a saying as christians, we are supposed to move in the supernatural realm. In signs, wonders and miracles, this prove to the world that God is with us. We are supposed to be different from any other religion because our God is alive. As Paul stated clearly, 1 corinthian 2:4
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power,
thanks sandra, I appreciate your effort and taking the time to respond. i am still in a dilemma what to do or say to my friends if they ask why I am not attending EN church anymore. any advice?
Pepe, in a very polite , non confrontational way. tell them God haved called you to go to another church. Tell them you felt that is God leading you someplace else. And if its not God’s will then you will come back. Majority of the time, most don’t go back to EN ministry but it did avoided any confrontation.
thanks again sandra, I like your advice. Majority of these people in our church are just like me seeking after God. I do not want to be confrontational or make enemies out of them. Like I said I did not see any abuses being committed in our church. They are nice and friendly people. Many of them were good to me and my family. It’s just that I don’t sense the Holy Spirit in the services. I am not looking after weird manifestations, although these are not necessarily bad especially if initiated by the Holy Spirit. What i mean is as a worshipper, you always yearn for the Presence of the Holy Spirit. It’s not something physical or observable, it’s something spiritual that you can sense within you and in the atmosphere and your spirit bears witness. I know that people who have been baptized in the Holy Spirit and who worship in spirit and in truth know what I am talking about.
Btw, I checked Church So Blessed’s website, and it looks ok, but the church is very far from our place, about 5 hours drive…. but it would be worth a visit sometime. Thank you And God bless you, sister.
I know somebody who is a missionary in the phillippines, he knows a lot of churches all over the phillippines. if you do not want to post what city you are looking for, email me. Anniegrey@msn.com i can ask a missionary friend where you can find one.
@Pepe, I think you join VCF/EN around 2007-2008 where they apply the cosmetic changes, abuse was covered, and they bombed the congregation about gossip preaching series where in if a member talks about the past it is bitterness or gossip, as former full time staff, I honestly tell you, victory weekend is a religious ritual, this is where the indoctrination begins, it is where you are forced to forgive those people who offended you, it is where you must confess your sins to the leaders, and if you do not complete the discipleship process, 121 to victory weekend, you are not qualify to join the lime light ministry(music team, speakers/teacher)
It is hard to move to another church specially if you are attending other church before, and you make a lot of friends in VCF, but I would say I never regret I left VCF/EN.
@anti-pharisee, Thanks for your comment. I do believe that I joined VCF/EN at a time when they were reacting to the “controlling/manipulating” accusation against them. Although I did not know it at that time. I think they were even overdoing it. Wherein they became so liberal that almost as if everything was permissible in church, secular songs, dances, etc. (However I do not like to talk about legalism here, less i digress.).
Like I said before, this VCF/EN church I went to preached all the “right” sermons and doctrines in the print and in the pulpit. The ministries are all thriving… campus, music team, kids church, etc. The congregation is rapidly growing. The members are sincere God-seeking. In fact I made many friends. But I didn’t realize the “controlling” spirit, rather, I saw hints of it and they were very unnoticable, so I just shrugged these off, reasoning that there’s no perfect church anyway, not yet this side of heaven.
I did not see any abuses or misdeeds in this church. I did not see any of the accusations against EN in this thread being committed in our church. BUT I STILL LEFT because of the organization behind it and the people who run it at the top. I did not want to be associated anymore with this organization. So if there’s “nothing” wrong with my local church and there’s a lot of what is good and right going on, why would I still leave?
If you try to feed strychnine to a dog, he wouldn’t touch it. You have to mix in plenty of healthy foods, meats and sausages into tiny amount of strychnine before the dog will eat it. That’s what makes this organization dangerous. There’s lot of the right stuff going on while the controlling-manipulative spirit lurks behind.
So looking back, my main reasons for leaving was:
1. I could still sense the spirit of “Maranatha” or “Shepherding Movement” operating in this organization. I was just an ordinary member so I didnt see much. But I believe the top leaders just changed names, not heart or spirit.
One indication: The top leaders controlled what is going to be preached in each congregation, even what is going to be discussed in the cell group! Couldn’t the local pastor search the heart of God for himself what He wants to be preached in the local congregation?
This is controlling because, it makes it nearly impossible for fresh, timely, straight-from-the-heart-of-God message or movement to penetrate the organization because “canned” messages are already “booked” by its leaders. These so called “canned” messages are not wrong in themselves because they are based on the Word of God, such that if the hearers apply the Word of God, they will benefit from it, whether it be preached from a clean or polluted source. But do you see the manipulative spirit operating behind it? In basketball parlance, do you see how the Holy Spirit is boxed out?
I have observed that the top leadership have effectively controlled the local pastors such that they have effectively insulated the organization from what God is doing in His Church at present, which leads me to my next major reason.
2. I observed in my 5 years of attending VCF/EN services that this church is organization-centered, instead of Christ-centered. Of course, they will deny this vehemently. You can deny doctrines but not perceptions or observations. In the services, the goings-on in the organization are always presented through overhead projector. It seems the organization is thriving and that nothing can go wrong with the organization. But it also seems that the other members of the Body of Christ who are not part of EN organization are out of the picture? It seems only EN is doing the “mission”. That is why if the Holy Spirit is already moving in various powerful and awesome ways in other places, somehow EN does not know about it or simply ignores it. Would you think the current leadership of EN allow such people as John Paul Jackson, Randy Clark, Graham Cooke, Renny McClean, Arekion, Heidee Baker, etc. (oh so many godly men and women being used by God all belonging to different organizations but belonging to only One Body) to conduct revivals or teachings within EN? I don’t think so. Again, the Holy Spirit is completely boxed out.
3. My next reason was I longed for true worship in the congregation but I couldn’t find it. I am far from perfect. I myself is in great need of revival, I am in my lowest right now, and I continue to seek God. I have been without a local church since I left. I am very careful now of what church to join after my experience with VCF/EN. I need your prayers. And I believe God is not done yet with EN. He loves everyone that is currently a member of this organization.
Pepe , try church so blessed . They have few churches. churchsoblessed.com I think thats their website. They go after signs , wonders and miracles . They are also somewhat connected to Bill Johnson also. Who have connection with Rick joyner, heidi baker etc.
Hello, My niece is deeply involved with VCM at East Carolina University. Seems like she’s living her life vicariously through this group instead of making her own decisions and finding her own path into adulthood. I’m concerned, so I’m on a fact finding mission. I’d like to read the sermon you referenced below if you still have a copy.
Thanks!
“Anyway, I’ve acquired a transcript of a sermon preached when this group’s name was changing from Morning Star International to Every Nation (btw, this is short for Every Nation in a Generation). Some of the things said will blow your mind. Stuff about how God has “called us to rule over the Earth”. If you’d like a copy, please email me and I’ll be glad to send it to you.”
Hello john G , I do have a fried who have a vast collection of its teachings . Her email address is Ulyankee@yahoo.com
Another one is posted on youtube. Their prophet name is Jim lafoon. The teaching/preaching was posted by another friend of mine. A lot of people were disturbed by its preaching. Its pretty bad. Every Nation Ministry also have sent out Communique for all the churches back in 2007 . Admitting of misuse of funds. What we know is that mission funds was diverted to their pockets, not just mission funds , but also building funds and every ministry that you can think of, its diverted to their pockets. There is one ministry its for orphans, the poor and the widows. That was also went to their pockets. They are also known for stealing churches and kicking out pastors. They do it by manipulation, the latest is this year in Africa. Its a very destructive , wicked and evil ministry.
JohnG: Every Nation in Our Generation. Yes. They are very dominion-oriented. Our EN church was also very patriarchal in nature. Have you ever studied the Shepherding Movement? That will explain why she’s so dedicated to their church. She is convinced that she’s really serving Jesus and doesn’t realize she’s simply recruiting for their organization. There’s not much you can do to talk to her about it because she’s probably already being told that outsiders aren’t as elite and dedicated as she and her church is and will be warned that you’re a voice against God in her life. Even if you’re a believer. She’s also probably being told that she shouldn’t associate with people who aren’t “on mission” like she is.
I would continue to love her and point out beautiful examples of Christianity in other places like the Catholic Church, more formal, liturgical churches, and other places that her church is teaching her “don’t get it” and aren’t “really in love with Jesus” like they are.
Best to you and your niece!
I’m currently associating with the Every Nation Campus Ministry at my local College. I’m proud to say that though I have a friend who was told that he “had” to attend a Campus Harvest because the campus minister said he needed to “obey spiritual authority” that Every Nation Ministry is not treating students this way from my current observations. I decided to attend a campus harvest to learn more… At campus harvest I was encouraged twice in the same service to become a full time campus minister, however, it wasn’t forcing and I was told to get my answer from God about this choice, which in contrast to the things shared on this page is a GOOD step for this ministry. I was not required to do some training to lead student bible studies, I simply prayed about it and talked to the campus minister and I’m leading one. I am given a script for what to share at the bible studies but I’m not forced to follow it, and actually last time the campus minister himself sensed that God wanted him to share something completely different from the script and he did. I haven’t been told how I should make choices and what I should do with my life, I have been encouraged to tell people about Jesus, but never forced to, for example, I was kindly invited by the campus minister to talk to people on campus about Jesus, there was no sense of obligation or else and no sense of being less worthy for not saying yes(I rarely have time to do this, and haven’t been re-invited to do it over and over). I miss campus meetings and things all the time, and the campus minister never makes me feel bad, he just continues to show love and concern for how my spiritual life is going. I’m interested in a girl right now, and the campus minister just simply asks how it’s going. One time an unmarried couple mentioned that they were having sex and in the past I remember Every Nation kind of forcing their boundaries for relationships on the students, but they don’t do this anymore, the couple was “offered” to set boundaries to keep their relationship pure, and they accepted the offer. So, anyways, I’m mentioning these things because I do believe Every Nation has it’s issues just like any other group of Christian’s but the key thing is that they don’t adopt kinds of overall methods that force students to be this, and do that, and at this point 2012 I don’t see this ministry doing this anymore at all, and I’m happy to say that I will continue to associate with this ministry as I have opportunities to minister to students 5 or more years younger than me…
Sound like you “obeyed them” the whole time. So there won’t be a problem at all for you there. And that bounderies in regards to the couple it is called “legalism:. Its really nobody’s business not even yours, that right there is between them and God, let the Holy Spirit convict them. There is no purity in those bounderies. Thats legalistic. God change the hearts to change our behaviors. We stop sin because we love God, in fact Jesus said we only obey two commandment. If we stop sin simply by setting “boundaries” or setting rules and regulations or principles then you treaded on LEGALISM. Sound like Every Nation Ministry have not changed. Rules may have lax a bit but legalism still triumphs in Every Nation Ministry.
The first Commandment of the Lord, Love God with all your heart soul and mind gave us and teach us self government. We set the standard on OURSELVES because of Passion of love for our Lord. That we refused to sin for our passion for the Lord, not to preach the gospel but we because we are so in love with God that we refused to sin. And excited to tell people about our God. Like the woman in the well. Nobody told her to go and tell, She went and tell the whole town because of her excitement . There is NO “encouragement ” to tell the town about God, she just went and did it . DID Peter , Paul or any of the apostles “encouraged” to tell about GOD ? NONE. People do it on their own. I am already in a church where people are “encouraged” to lay hands on people , so they can be healed or experienced God and these unbelievers are the ones who wants to know God. AS Paul said, IT IS THE GOODNESS OF GOD THAT LEAD TO REPENTANCE. The unbelievers EXPERIENCED HIS GOODNESS getting healed , prayers answered, Miracles , signs and wonders.
Has Every nation Ministry MOVE in signs and WONDERS ? NOPE. As long as legalism is there. It will never move in signs and wonders, while other churches are experiencing it, this ministry will never ever experience it.
I went to a shepherding movement in Tucson about five years ago, and they were controlling, yet they had healings and miracles as part of their services.
It’s not always a test of whether there are gifts of the Holy Spirit operating.
The question is what will that EN Campus Minister do if J. James do not follow their “Encouragement”? How about put it into a try, let’s see what will happen.
Antipharisee, this is, of course, the only pertinent question. There’s never really a problem as long as you’re in complete agreement! :o)
I am attending Victory Church in the Philippines. I am still new but I am already planning in going to ENLI. By God’s grace I was saved and I want to share the gospel to other people. These posts against EN made me feel bad. I am really praying for God’s way to enlighten me in this kinds of stuff.
I was a member there for 14 years. it took 12 years to open my eyes . Here are the common sins in VCF. Slander. Stealing . Lies. Self rigteousness. Legalism. Pressuring people to give money for their mission funds and it is actually going straight to their pockets.The top leaders admitted of stealing from mission funds few years ago. And the EN communique was send out to all over the world. Thousand of churches left. Have they change ? no. They said they repented, NOw, they are back into their old ways. There are good churches in Phillippines but rare. Try church so Blessed. A lot of former VCF members goes there. And the Holy Spirit moves tremendously there also. healing, signs and wonders are common in that church, VCF church on the other hand is DEAD.
Hmmm… after reading on this, it seems like you may be the slanderer. You ruined your own message by doing so much ranting…
14 years. Wow. I’ve only been there for three months and I don’t know how to leave the friends which are also my classmates, who probably doesn’t know anything about this. Feel like I’m betrayed. Can I please know when, where and how the whole scandal started? You said slander, stealing etc. happened a few years ago and still happening right now. I don’t want to be rude but how did you know they’re still doing those sinful things if you got out of there? I just really want to clarify things so that I would not regret anything.
Actually, I’m not doing 121 and I did not attend Victory Weekend (they said 121 is a prerequisite)
Just out of curiosity, are you attending Church so Blessed?
One of my main issues was/is with EN churches: they promote, promote, promote THEIR doctrine or theology or Victory Weekends or the Purple Book or whatever and tend to get really freaked out if you express that those things don’t actually WORK for you. My husband and I attended many VWs and didn’t experience significant healing in our lives. What we needed was counseling, books, and outside help! Victory Weekend is only one tool in an arsenal against problems and issues in our lives…. I really wish they had not been so terribly exclusive about that stuff….
Hmmm…. it sounds like you are spiritually blocking healing in your life… when you have such negativity, you block the Holy Spirit from working… So, I’m not convinced it was EN…. maybe it’s good for them that you left. As I’ve read this all in one evening, I can discern the truth now. I thought those against EN were correct, but I detect such a bitterness, that, Satan is using it to his advanatage,
Aya, It started in 1998 when this whole EN started. Back then its name was Maranatha Ministries, its president was Bob Weiner , this is in the 1970’s. Maranatha broke up for the same reason, SO the top three leaders decided to form their own ministry together , named it Morning Star in 1998 , this was steve Murrell, Phil Bonasso and Rice Brookes. Phil and Steve was my pastors. Way before I joined this ministry, I was already a christian in a different denomination. Who move in signs and wonders but God wants me to leave the ministry. SO I did, joined this one as God instructed. And for years, I was wondering why this church is soooo dead, hoping that there would be some revival , its on the year 2000 when I decided to leave. This is after 14 years. Its heart wrenching. Leaving everything you know. My eyes were opened. SO I kept preaching the gospel. The people there do not know the true gospel of Jesus Christ, all they know most are twisted doctrines . That is why the church are all dead. There are more to it happened, but basically on the year 2000, The Lord spoke to me Phil Bonasso at that time the chief financial officer was stealing. I told the Lord to prove it. A week later, I got the financial book. Can’t mention how. But somebody gave it to me, at that time also I was speaking out about the tyranny and the abuses of this ministry. YET I waited till 2006 to exposed this whole thing. At that time also Phil’s daughter was sleeping with the youth pastor who was married with three kids. SO its a double whammy for the church. The ministry also have a contract with all the world wide churches that those top three handles the finances and it was a guarded secret as to where they can spend it. At that time, the top three were jetsetting all over the world. Their wives shopping at PARIS, France with Missions money. That just one of the places they go to. On January 2007, they have a meeting at Palm Spring since I exposed them,so all these pastors are demanding where is the money and if its true. AND THEY ADMITTED IT. More than half of the pastors left,, never came back for the second half of the conference. The entire Malaysian churches left also. Communique was sent out to all the churches admitting they cannot even balance the books. Also money missing under Phil Bonasso. Phil Step down. But here is the funny thing. Rice Brookes,, his church had money scandal and now his church is handling the entire finances of EN. And they are going to tell me to trust him ? How do I know that they are NOT stealing ? Just look at their history, Rice Brookes was Bob Weiner second man when Maranatha went down. (money scandal, abusive, control ,legalism)Rice Brookes was the president of EN when this scandal broke out, now he is handling the money AGAIN ? EN went down due to control , legalism, money scandal , its history repeating itself. Same thing.
Thank you so much for taking your time to tell me the story. I am praying to God that somehow people will also find a way to find out the real thing and hear God’s call. I’m new to EN and I know, God will let me leave there in peace and without making enemies.
Thank you so much.
Aya if you want the real thing. GO to Church so blessed. churchsoblessed.com God constantly shows up there. His Glory cloud, mass healing, Gold dust appearing, People getting slain left and right, His Spiritual wave, Mass healing, just literally signs and wonders. And there are a lot of former VCF members . Go to where God is. I have recommended this church a few times. And no, I am not a member there. I go to a different glorious church that have the same thing , signs and wonders. Church so bless is our sister church. The mother church is Bethel church up in Redding Ca. Headed by Bill Johnson. ALso connected to Heidi Baker Ministry , also known for mass healing, signs and wonders, raising people from the dead.
Bethel church in Redding Ca. is known for teaching the entire congregation, from little children as young as 5 years old to senior citizen to heal people. So you can imagine with over 30,000 members, just guessing, it changed the whole city. It brought revival to the whole city of Redding. ITs normal to go malls, to see people praying and literally getting a word or HEALED. In that church also, people who are even newly born again, start laying hands on people , and people are getting healed. I heard some are unbelievers who are visitors, are also joining in,laying hands on people getting people healed, so after they saw the miracles, they want to get saved. They got the healing power before they got saved lol ! Would you ever see that in VCF or EN ? Never. It will never, ever happen.
I hope I’m not too late to keep you from ignoring negativity on this blog. I knew as I read this (3 years later), that Sandra had this all confused with Maranatha. I was a member of Maranatha in 85/86. It had issues. Rice Broocks and others spoke out against it. It dissolved. As Christians, they have repented and built a new church – EN. To keep harping on one’s sin, is sinful. I’m glad God will give more grace to Sandra. She and others are bitter against old Maranatha leaders, but she is confused on facts. I hope you let the Holy Spirit lead you.
a lot of carnage
Lisa Anthony.. are you referring to Every Nation that has engaged in carnage spiritually speaking or people who are posting what they have experienced on this message board?
Greetings I am so grateful I found your webpage, I really found you by error, while I was searching on Yahoo for something else, Anyways I am here
now and would just like to say many thanks for a remarkable post and a all round entertaining blog (I also love the theme/design),
I don’t have time to read through it all at the minute but I have bookmarked it and also added in your RSS feeds, so when I have time I will be back to read a great deal more, Please do keep up the great work.
Have you guys ever thought about the fact that there are every nation churches that are a reflection of Jesus and there may be some you guys went to that were just under bad leadership? It doesn’t mean the whole organization is corrupt because you had a bad experience with a deceived pastor. Sheesh. There’s been plenty of amazing testimonies coming out of those churches so just because you had a pastor that was obviously under deception doesn’t make everyone in that organization evil.
Whew! Quite a posting.
As someone who worked very closely with all these EN leaders and helped build the organization from the inside for over 15 years throughout the world, I can corroborate much of what everyone has written.
I, too, have seen the ugly abuses, the amazing growth in Asia, the theological weirdness, gross financial avarice in ministry leaders, broken lives redeemed, marriages torn apart, accusations, isolation, beautiful relationships…. and a lot of pain (all surrounding this organization).
While much of what Sandra has written above is true of the 1990’s (and even into some of the last decade) some is conjecture, some just a little off in the details, but some is very correct. The challenge is taking all this “stuff” you’ve just read, and deciding what to do with it.
Here are a few other things to consider:
1. Much has changed since 2006: new board members, executive pay changes, leadership accountability structures, cooling-down on the control abuses, more social justice involvement, etc.
2. Some core theological tenets and practices “may have changed” but not sure to what degree: discipleship, spiritual family, pastoral covering, view of authority, etc.
3. Most of the “problems” were (are) very North-American based. Sure, there have been problems in every part of the world, but much of the unhealthy stuff was here in the U.S.. I love my Filipino friends, but you were thankfully sheltered from a lot of “junk” that was brewing in America. Same goes for Africa, Europe, and Latin America…. you weren’t immune, but hopefully not affected as badly.
When I left EN years ago, it was over some core value disagreements with leadership regarding financial transparency, executive pay, theological foundations, and authority structures. I was on the inside of everything, and I was sickened at what I saw. I felt deeply saddened, betrayed, upset, used, bitter, confused, and hurt – not by anyone in particular, but by the whole experience. All my best friends were still an integral part of the org, but I knew my time had come “to get off the bus.”
Although I have had my fair share of bouts with bitterness over the years, time has healed most of those wounds. I have fortunately kept nearly all of those relationships, many of whom stayed with EN and helped it weather the storms. In my case, the friendships forged in this org over decades superseded the boundary lines of “spiritual family” (some kooky theology taught in EN from the “old days”). My friends and I respect our differences in organizational affiliation, and we have come to realize that we do not need to argue or debate over EN. Our love for one another is stronger than our church membership.
Don’t get me wrong…. I have forgiven and reconciled as much as I can with EN (at this point), but that doesn’t mean that I have forgotten. Trust was deeply shattered, and core values were laid bare for what they were, and I realized this was not an organization for me. There are many other amazing organizations out there that are “a better fit” for my core values and beliefs.
So what is my advice for someone who just read 6 years of posts? Tread carefully with eyes wide open, ask the tough questions, understand who you are, what you believe, what kind of life you want to build, and prayerfully decide what you will do with all this internet posting input.
Organizations come and go, and when it all comes down to it, “the Church” is just a bunch of people trying to figure out how to live. The lines they draw in the sand are relatively arbitrary.
Cheers!
EN is in fact a cult. I was born into it it. I believed russ austin and his family when they told us that dating was sinful. I believed eric terwilliger when he told us that we could use up the lords mercy. I sat through countless hours of tantrum-talks on the part of chelsea terwilliger, talks that went on long after wednesday night youth group should have been over, at which no parents were present. She would recount her personally testimony and accuse us of similar and worse sins or thoughts of sins. I was prophesied over by jim lafoon-“there are two kinds of people in this world- those who are burdens to every one around them, and burden bearers”. I made it my mission to sing onstage and lead a victory club bible study at my high school. I was a good kid. Then i met and fell in love with my now husband. They found out and sent me to serve as an intern at bethel. I saw the clothes and the cars and the lifestyles of the “leaders”
I had grown up admiring. I was devastated knowing they would soon address my boyfriend issue. Although i hadn’t touched or kissed my boyfriend, i felt a crushing guilt for harboring such
a sinful relationship. I cried for a month, all through sermons and worship services and ministry opportunities. Kevin singleton took me into a room, pulled out a Derek prince (sp?) book, and began proving to me that i was demon possessed. “Do you have a knot in your throat?”” Are your shoulders tense?”….. Physical symptoms of demon possession, and due to a soul tie with a baptist boyfriend. He performed an exorcism on me without informing my parents. I was 17. None of the other interns knew what had happened. The eating disorder that had begun to struggle with got worse. I was told i had to break up with my boyfriend or lose my relationship with god. I did as i was told in fear. They sent me home early, in disgrace, weighing 100 lbs. i was still crying.
My family never looked at me the same again. I lost them. Because leaving EN meant losing my entire world, however, i stayed. I began taking antidepressants and binging. I got back up on the stage and even recorded two albums with the worship pastor at my church. I was still afraid i was as bad as they told me i was. Finally, after years of therapy i was able to make contact with the boy i broke up with and we were married two years later. I didnt feel safe to leave the church until we were married and could leave together.
All that to say, its been 13 years and not a day goes by that i dont deal in some way with the twisted lies these leaders told me. No one has ever taken responsibility for what happened to me- my college pastor warned boys in our church not to talk to me because i
Had issues, women in the church told me i was ugly and making myself ugly by not eating, that i must not care about my family for all i was putting them through, and on and on. I didn’t receive kindness until i pulled myself together enough to sing again on stage. I was left to bear the blame for wounds inflicted by bad men and bad women. This movement is indeed maranatha revisited. Make no mistake- nothing has changed.
I will say however, that its safe to attend as a faithful tither and fringe member. If you haven’t got an ability they can exploit and you still enjoy tithing, you will be safe with EN.
What a painful, awful story. I recently heard that the leaders of my old EN church told a woman that, if she were living in the OT, she would’ve been STONED for what she had done. They may have changed the name, but the control, the abusiveness, the female domination and even torture are not changing. How sad. I pray that you are fully recovered from that pain. It is hard and long, isn’t it?
Cathy i cannot tell you how much it means for you to say that. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Yes it is very lonely. Im thankful to have my husband and im so very glad to finally find other people talking about this. It helps so much, i feel human.
ooh. wow. I went through this same thing in Maranatha 28 years ago. Some wanted to break up me and my fiance, others rebuked those leaders who did. Yet, I will still not go far as to say it’s a cult because people get mislead themselves. It doesn’t mean you should stay (I didn’t), but continuing to slander the body of Christ is just not productive. I’m so glad for my esperience. All things work for good for those who love the Lord and are called according to His purpose.
And let me add, what you went through was absolutely horrible and God will deal with those who put you through this. I’m telling you it is EXACTLY, what I went through 28 years ago in Maranatha. Reading it makes me cry. My marriage ended 11 years after we were married. (married in 1988.) One lady at Maranatha told my mom she was always afraid my fiance would bring me down if we married. I will always love my ex husband, but we were long gone from Maranatha before we were even married. So, should I say I should have listened to the lady? No. Who knows who is right or wrong. We’re all humans. I just want people to know that there were good people there and many knew why me and my fiance at the time left. It was because we knew the Lord wanted us together and yet, they tried to break us up. Yet, I’m not married now, am I? My point is, I could be bitter in both directions, but I’m not. The Lord uses all things for good. You will heal and can use this for the good of the body of Christ. Just be careful and know that not everyone’s experience is the same. Yet… I still understand since I experienced the same thing at Maranatha. Bless you!
Im so sorry to know it happened to you too. But i do believe good people can also be cult members. The way you talk sounds so much like what i used to hear in morning star, and youve responded to almost every post in this thread. Are you working with every nation?
i was 6 and attending my first service in a morning star church (or what would soon become one) when you got married in 1988. in 1999, when you were going through a divorce, i was undergoing the same kind of rejection you must have faced at the hands of my own trusted spiritual authorities, for wanting to date someone outside the movement. if, after eleven years and a serious reorganization of leadership along with name changes, etc., the same scenario can unfold, how much change can have really occurred? there are people i love, family members even, who are members of the every nation movement today. they think in the same way that you speak, they are afraid that open criticism of their church and its leadership is equal to open rebellion against God. i don’t “go so far” as to call EN a cult, i see it operate as one both now and, thanks to your story, back into its own past. i can waste no more time feeling constantly conflicted, shaming myself for frustration, hurt, and confusion that is justified. it’s no way to live!
since my initial post i’ve been able to talk with my parents about my experience. they finally understand! they never knew about the exorcism, but saw it’s effects as i struggled with depression and eating disorders upon my return from the nashville church. my parents recently left EN on good terms with the good people they knew there, and our relationship has blossomed. i finally feel free of the effects of that movement, and no longer feel angry and sad when i wake up and when i lay down.
i say this because there’s an idea that you seem to put forward, that any and all bad feelings experienced as a church member are to be lumped into the category of “bitterness”, and “bitterness” is to be repented of and forgotten by individual church members, the church itself bearing no responsibility for damages caused. if i had continued to deal with my own “bitterness” in that way, i would have finished the job in 2001 and starved myself to death, which was my intention at the time. i saw no other option, having tried everything i could to manage myself.
there are bad feelings that have to be acknowledged. i have lived with my own miserable anger and sadness as the knot created by leadership at EN has slowly been untangled, through counseling and patience on the part of a few close friends, most especially my husband. this has felt like the most out-of-control way of living! it feels like rebellion when you’ve been taught the way they taught us, but it’s the way God designed people- as complicated, perceptive beings made in his image, strong enough at times, but overall very weak. “when my heart was grieved and my spirit embittered, i was senseless and ignorant; i was a brute beast before you. yet i am always with you; you hold me by my right hand. (psalm 73)”
Ash, i feel like i might know you.
And so tired of this talk about “bitterness”. I want justice, i want answers. There are people who did wrong and should account for it. This is my only life, and most of it was spent at the mercy of cruel and un christian men and women. I was labeled bitter and rebellious as soon as i returned from bethel, and it was an incredibly effective way of shutting me up, or making me unworthy of time and attention. It isn’t okay.
Catherine, I am sorry for the “waste” of your precious life and time that you devoted to these esaus… yes I called them esaus because Esau’s name means to waste… and Yes they are a very dangerous group of people and the more of truth or as we say in hebrew emet prevails the more these scumbags will be exposed and no they can put their trust in their false gods like these athletes and famous people but they don’t know God… They are a lot like nimrod in the bible… the only reason why He had a kingdom is that He had subjects.. you were a subject just like I was.. true love doesn’t enable a person and by enabling them to continuously think and believe they are right when they are completely wrong doesn’t solve the problems but only as stated enables them… God’s word is an offense and for your sake you are going to have to offend people at times and its for their sake too… I actually b ought a teaching that I am sending to rice broocks regarding wheat and tares… these types of people and their activities make it hard to confront because of the politically left and far right in this country would love to romanticize this type of christianity which is just pure hypocrisy, abject christianity and pass it along as truth….the only way for truth to prevail is to speak it…. confront them… if need be go to authorities.. Bonasso stole at least almost a million and someone went to the authorities on him.. by authorities I mean fbi…. they are some sick people but truth will prevail and they will be wasteproducts not for too long…
BWOC was my Church for 1 1/2 years during their big building addition in the late 1990s. I HATED THAT CHURCH! And yes, please say the cliche’ “There’s no such thing as a perfect Church!” It’s a cop out for irresponsible Christians (or those who have been brainwashed by them). The comment’s also horribly unjust to those who have been mentally, emotionally, verbally, sexually and physically abused by Church leaders and anyone else in Church.
Bethel’s (BWOC) preachers spent most of their time honoring men in business and athletics (college and pro), This church demanded discipleship all the time. My sister was a door greeter and we both volunteered for the nursery once a month. I was also in the choir. We both were members at the Church. We spent much of our time at a lousy home group. My sister and I kept going to the Church and group because we didn’t want to be “Jezebels”, women who are “rebellious”. (It’s interesting how women are usually labeled Jezebels, but no spirit of “Ahab” is ever mentioned, not even for men.) I was single and in my late 20s when I attended. If I showed disagreement or confusion about scripture or doctrine or what a leader did, I was either laughed at or horribly insulted by leadership.
Rice took over a couple of months before I left and my last Sunday was Easter, the same day the Singles’ ministry couple began their positions. By that point I just had enough of BWOC’s dictatorship! I couldn’t take the misogyny and intimidation any longer. No matter how honest I tried to be, how much I read the Bible, prayed, volunteered and tithed, I was never enough. And if I ever so slightly questioned anything I was too much and didn’t know how to submit. I don’t know how the Church on Granny White operates now, I honestly have no idea, but if it’s anything like it was while it was named Bethel. it’s not healthy.
I just want to throw this out there. I had a wonderful revelation a few years after our EN debacle. A group of people who demand that you sit under their AUTHORITY but are under no real AUTHORITY themselves, well, that is a farce. It’s a joke. There is no legitimate spiritual anything there. Be careful, therefore, submitting to the authority of those who are rebellious themselves…..
They are spiritual esaus……. If you look up the word truth in hebrew it means what was what is and what is to come… how can that be if they are always capricious and changing all the time when something goes wrong and the Lord plainely states I am the Lord I don’t change….
A note on the comments implying that one should just “forgive and move on.” Yes, indeed. However, that doesn’t mean that you should not WARN other people about the insidiousness. Just as if you found a beggar on the street was actually not in dire straits but just fleecing people, you ought to warn people about this. It is only right.
Oh, and this brought me a lot of healing. I cried when I watched it. This is how godly leadership looks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG7Jp_G1_Mw
There ARE healthy churches, pastors, leaders, and elders. Not everyone is controlling and codependent. :o) Keep searching!
I was the very first missionary sent out of Bethel in Nashville. Bethel started as a great church with a vision for the lost under the leadership of Ray McCollum. It later got hi-jacked by what was then Morning Star. Trust me when I say that Every Nation, though not a cult in the classic sense, like Jehovah’s Witnesses, is definitely operating on a false theology. I personally know of multiple instances of sexual immorality, financial mis-handlings, etc. within the leadership ranks. I gave a decade of my life in “service” to this organization only to be discarded by church ‘leaders” when I began working with drug addicts and homeless people. STAY AWAY FROM EVERY NATION.
test!
Hey Michael, I know you made this post 6 years ago and I don’t know if you will get this, but I saw this and wanted to say hello. Do you remember me? John White and my brother Ed White? We were at Bethel in the late 80s and early 90s. I pray you are doing well, brother. Sincerely, John
Interesting that this ministry have NOT changed. Did not they just had a lawsuit a few years ago , Rice had to admit the abusive stuff and settle out of court. I think they are asking FOR another lawsuit.
Catherine, you said you were 17 when this happened. That is a ground for lawsuit. I do not know the statue of limitation on this but you can check it out. Somebody already laid a foundation on that a few years ago , A parent sued EN for those kind of abuses. Rice had to settle out of court. And of course he had to admit that it happened. Here is the thing, it already got a foundation, it happened to someone else and RIce and his company got sued, you can get a lawyer and let the court know that this have happened before. And that person is NOT the only victim there are other victims as well. What EN needs and screaming for is a class action lawsuit.
And here is an advice for ALL parents out there, would you let a child molester be in one room with your children ? The answer is of course no, why its because as a parent YOUR JOB IS TO PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN. SO why expose your children to EN ? They are well known ABUSERS. What kind of a parent who would exposed their children to this kind of abuses ? LEARN TO THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX.
Sandra, i wish i could get in touch with family you are talking about. I don’t know if i have the energy for a lawsuit, but have considered writing an essay or a book. I’d need the help of an accomplished writer or journalist! But i think it would be a thing worth doing.
This happened back in 2007. It was all over the news. I have a friend who got a copy of that news. Email me, here is my email address Anniegrey@msn.com
I left EN in 2007. It was the hardest thing I have ever had to do. I was there six years. I spent most of my twenties there, not dating and trusting God for a husband. I had liked a guy there at my church, but was told to ” lay down my feelings” for him. Whatever that means. I am now in my late thirties and single. That is not their fault, but I have to wonder if i had dated then if i would be married now. At a time I should have been dating and learning to have meaningful relationships, i was trapped in a very controlled environment. There was very much an attitude of exclusivity and a feeling of superiority. As if we were the only movement that had it all together. It has taken a long time to separate myself mentally from EN. Even though i have been gone for years, their teachings still haunt me. I guess that is why i googled EN abuse yet again. I just need to know I am not crazy. It helps to know I am not the only person who feels EN is abusive. I am still trying to renew my mind with the word of God , pure and unadulterated. The pastors there are worshipped and treated like celebrities. I have been told not to judge, but Jesus said we would know people by their fruit. Can men pick figs from thistles? I have also been told not to throw out the baby with the bath water. There were some good people that I met there, but i think people need to be aware of the dangers. It was a controlling ministry. I was told that spiritual family is a covenant, and that covenant is not to be broken. The only covenants that i have seen in the bible are the marriage covenant and the covenant between Abraham and God. I guess I am rambling, but this helps me. I know this might sound strange, but it was weird going to a church where there was no invasive involvement in my life. I had withdrawls. It was hard to go to a church where people weren’t overly excited to see me and who didn’t call me if i missed a service. I realized how entrenched I was in this subculture, and dependent on being told how to live. I wish I had never gone to EN.
Hey, My name is Michael Turner. I was the very first missionary sent from what was once Bethel Chapel but later got swallowed up by Morning Star / Every Nation ministries. There are some good, godly people involved in that movement but I took away two things from my 10+ years involvement with them. 1. Their theology of New Apostolic Reformation is just not biblical 2 . Their focus on the “beautiful people” is not biblical either. God is good. His word is true. The church has wrinkles that need to be ironed out. You are not crazy! God loves you and his work in and through you will continue and does not depend on “spiritual family”, etc, blah, blah . Keep the faith. Keep pursuing Jesus and forgive, forgive, forgive.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on skin balanced. Regards
VCF – LIPA, Batangas – Church Hypocrisy…This church is called as Every Nation Ministry worlwide
This story was narrated to me by a former church leader. I had to translate it to English. It’s a story of how VCF – Lipa started and how Positions were STOLEN from the Original Church planters. A true story of Manipulation , lies , slander , covetousness by the current pastors of VCF.
Its very similar to the story of how Rice Brookes stole the church in Tennessee. Bethel. How Rice Brookes manipulate himself into Bethel, start replacing a lot of key leadership and some manipulating them to become his yes men.
It is also a similar story of Phil Bonasso, how he snaked Tom.
Funny how
Lipa Batangas – pastors learned and discipled real well by Phil Bonasso and Rice Brookes.
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Robert started a small group in Batangas City, he met Ever, Illo, and Anthony. The group was becoming a church because of more and more people coming in Batangas, then some rich people from other churches decided to help and joined Batangas. Since the youth ministry in Lipa City failed and not growing because of Louie’s leadership(Louie is the youth pastor of Lipa before), Louie saw the opportunity in Batangas, so he let go of his youth ministry and start ministering in Batangas. Louie ask Raymond de Guzman (Senior Pastor of VCF Lipa) that he wanted to plant a church in Batangas, of course Raymond agrees. Then slowly louie start to invade the lives of the christians in Batangas, he hired Illo and Ever as his full time staff, disciples were stolen from church leaders by Louie, then rich businessmen thought the elders were like the same as their old church. Since they assumed that position. ALL of a sudden, the church start to run differently from before. Now people starts asking questions about Louie, Even his own staff start to question his leadership inside the church.( sound like the Holy Spirit is making them think on their own). Complaints against Louie started to arised inside the church.
After manipulating and conquering the people sa Batangas. He now ask Robert if he can be the pastor of VCF Batangas. Robert said , go and ask the senior pastor, Raymond.
What Robert did not know is that Louie and Raymond have already talked , that Louie will become the pastor of VCF Batangas.
It was a setup. Everybody was shocked when Manny Carlos ordained Louie as the pastor of Batangas, since they are expecting Robert to lead batangas. There were church leaders who were wondering why they used Manny Carlos to ordained Louie since Manny Carlos is a Bishop of Manila not the Provincial Bishop . The Provincial Bishop is Juray Mora. Juray Mora is the one who was supposed to ordain .Some church leaders concluded that there is something fishy going on, Manny carlos is somewhat related kay Raymond de Guzman, church leaders suspect that Raymond talk to Many Carlos to ordained Louie. After that Robert let go of Batangas and focus his ministry in Lipa.
After that more and more complaint start arising against Louie, (louie is known for his manipulating and controlling behavior) , complaints against his full time staff, the elders, Then louie starts blaming church leaders a common practice among church pastors in VCF-EN . The Blame game started. Because of Louie leadership, the rich businessmen start leaving the church.Some church leaders went back to Lipa. Staff resigning left and right. Most of the crowd in Batangas now mostly young people are now being exploited by Louie.
Robert return and focus to VCF Lipa, Raymond is threatened of Robert’s leadership. Most of the volunteer followed Robert, most of the people are moving sa afternoon service, Thats when Robert preached. Suddenly Raymond starts to reshuffle the preaching schedule and volunteers, People were being surprised that Raymond would preached in the afternoon. People attend the afternoon service to hear Robert preached not Raymond. Raymond said “We don’t announce who is the preacher anymore, We just pray who is going to preach that day “. But the truth is he want to stop people from transferring to Roberts service.
Even after the abuses , manipulation, being taken advantage of, Robert still remain Loyal to VCF. Raymond asked Robert to give up his MPD so Lipa will put him in full time staff , fully paid by the church. So Robert followed Raymond advised despite of the whats happening. Like a Sheep led to a slaughter.
Because of Raymond’s Jealousy. Raymond tried to find ways to bring Robert down. And one of them is he saw Robert borrowing money from one of the members (Though I was told , this was paid). And according to Raymond, it is against church policy. ( Though it is not sin to borrow – coveting another’s anointing and position is sin – Thou shalt NOT COVET)
Robert was put on disciplinary action for “borrowing money”. Even though VCF pastors and top leadership often borrows money from people inside the church. Robert is NOT allowed to do this. Robert thought this disciplinary action is ONLY termporary but is is not. ALL of a sudden . VCF Fort ( Steve Murrell’s church ) called Robert for a meeting and was forced to resign. And also FORCED him to sign a resignation letter and other documents that he “borrowed” money. That is why he is no longer a pastor.
Robert try to talk to Raymond what is happening, Robert said to Raymond, “you ask me to give up my business to enter full time ministry, you ask me to live in a expensive house which we can’t afford, then you just going to get rid of me just like that ? then Raymond replied “Robert I don’t want to work with you anymore” Then Raymond stop communicating to Robert.
Robert and Raymond are neighbors and he is Raymond disciple, Raymond REFUSED to speak to Robert. ( whatever happened to the preaching of Love covers multitudes of sin? Borrowing money is NOT even sin ) . People in Lipa starts asking where is robert, then Raymond announce the congregation that Robert is no longer the pastor of Lipa. Raymond is giving half truth. Raymond telling people that he is under MPD but the truth is he is still the president of his father’s their company and he did not give up his career unlike what he teaching to his disciples who is entering into full time ministry to give up their business or career.
Robert realized he has nothing to feed his family.
Then Robert and his family left VCF, according to former church leaders most of roberts disciple remain loyal to Raymond hoping to become pastors. Now they were kicked out and Raymond has started to replaced them.
The cycle goes on.
===============================================
Its funny how “borrowing” money has become sin to VCF top leadership in Steve Murrell’s church. But Coveting, stealing, adultery, fraud, greed , Slander ,envy, materialistic is NOT.
Truly God’s Word have been replaced in this ministry.
VCF ministry has now gone from bad to worst. From bad to evil and wicked.
One of the teachings in VCF , especially by Steve Murrell. It is LOVE covers multitudes of sin. Steve Murrell gives these VCF top leaders, a license to SIN. A license to cover up sin and illegal activities inside the church. And every VCF pastors knows this.
When the Apostle Peter wrote that scripture, no where in their mind that it meant a License to Sin and doing illegal activities. It meant patience. Patience is one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit. Being patience of each other’s flaws for God still is working inside them. Example. I am patient for another christian who is addicted to alcohol. The Holy Spirit is still working inside of them. I am patient for baby christians. Who still have bad habits that the Holy Spirit is still working on them.
As Apostle Paul talks about us, summing up to be like Him. OR our goal in God is Christlikeness. We are His inheritance. The Holy Spirit that is deposited inside of us is working toward christlikeness. (Only if we are willing to be conformed to Christlikeness and this is HIS Will)
Ephesians 1:11
In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
Love covers multitudes of sin. IT IS NEVER a license to sin nor a License to Cover up of sin. Because if it is a License to cover up sin then there is NO NEED FOR REPENTANCE. The person who is sinning does not need to repent, he / she will keep on sinning and teaching others to do the same. And when get caught, it is a license to cover it up , nor speak against it. This is totally against the teaching of Christ.
Which Jesus clearly said , if your hand sinned against you CUT IT OFF ! If your eyes sinned against you pluck it out !. Jesus is very clear, extremely clear of His stand against willful sin. Jesus never taught cover it up.
In fact, Paul said this. 1 corinthian 5
9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[c] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”[d]
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As christians and a member of the church, if I see a pastor, who is a WILLING Participant of sin. That pastor CAN BE JUDGE inside the church. God and His Word gave us the right to judge that person inside the church.
Borrowing money is NOT sin. Unrighteous judgement is. unrighteous judgement comes with slander.
Last edited by ginger1; 03-28-2011, 06:20 PM.
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ginger1
ginger1
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Join Date: Sep 2014
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03-29-2011, 04:11 PM
Do be aware that in this cultic enviroment, almost every pastors in Every Nation Ministry are very threatened when this is discuss openly. They would start spreading slander and accuse you of gossip. This was Phil Bonasso’s tactic , even Rice Brookes. It worked pretty well for over the years , people pretend not to see anything nor hear anything, even though their conscience is nagging them that something is very wrong.
EN – VCF pastors still does this practice all the time for “CONTROL” and “Manipulation”. Though gossip is NOT in the ten commandments, but thou shalt not covet is. You simply do not covet other people’s position and anointing inside the church.
Another one is
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
VCF pastors constantly bear false witness against people inside the church. Phil Bonasso, Steve Murrell, Rice Brookes have done it. They have done it against me , former pastors and former members.
To know if these people are telling the truth. It is to go the very person whom they are speaking against and ask them point blank if it is true what these leaders were saying against them.
Example, the top VCF leader spreading lies that my husband went up to them and told them that he is divorcing me. Well that is absolutely not true. We just celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary . And what is so amazing is, we Don’t fight nor argue. Our marriage is far better than any of those top leaders who constantly bicker and fight.
Another example, these top leaders spread lies about Tom Siratnak who was a former pastor. According to the VCF top pastor , Tom went up to them in tears, begging for forgiveness for exposing them. Well that is not true because I am discipling his wife for more than ten years now and we are best friends. So I know whats going on and I told Tom what VCF pastors are saying. He was furious at the lies that is being spread by these top leaders.
My suggestion, DO NOT BELIEVE. As Christians we live in transparency. That is why Jesus called us the Light of the world. When you are light, you can’t hide, you have to be transparent and honest.
The VCF leaders does not like to be confronted. If they threaten you of gossip when asked about certain things, then its time to LEAVE the church.
If they give you an answer , then go investigate if its true or not.
American EN members learned our lessons NOT TO TRUST the top pastors any longer. That was hammered to us for years and years. To Just trust them. Not anymore. After all the lies and illegal activites by these pastors.
Thanks for your letter, Agigail. Yes, something is horribly wrong within EN. That is why I left in 2003 upon returning to the U.S. I had not been able to see it while in Manila because I was not as involved inside the church.
Hi Michael, are you Michael Turner the vocalist of the rock band Battery? Because as I remember, there is a American missionary preaching the gospel through rock music. Sorry for asking, hope you don’t mind.
Anonymous… yes.. that is me. EN is very close to being a cult but not in the classic definition of the word. it’s more in their approach to the idea of a new apostolic reformation.
Its funny how EN-VCF talks about faith , in reality they don’t even know how to live in faith. The other words of faith is to TRUST. I trust in God or I trust in His Word. I have faith/trust in the Lord. SO if we live in faith that the Lord will provide, mind you God is not a stingy God, Goodness, He fed the 5,000 and he have so much left over, that means He is more than enough … Living in faith, trusting … if these church leaders have faith why STEAL from the mission ? Why steal other people’s churches ? The reason why these people steal is simply because of ONE THING , they do not have faith that the Lord will provide. That’s why they stole money and churches. They stole churches because they believe that they cannot grow a church that big of a size from the ground up. They don’t believe that God will grow it that big, thats why they stole. What you are seeing is the LACK of Faith among these VCF- EN leaders. And these people talk about COMMISSIONING. So what is CO- Missioning. CO meaning partnering with God in a mission. SO these people lacking of faith in God have “commissioned” to spread the gospel. One knows that they already kick the Lord out when they did not walk in faith, so these mission that they are talking about, they are doing it on their own. God is NOT in it.
Dear servant of the Most high God,praise the living God!
Greetings to you in precious and awesome name of our lord and saviour.
My name is Rev. Carol Wisdom Of the Covenant global church of Kenya.
I have been blessed by your web contents.
Your work and teachings are good,as you heard africa dwells on matters and ministerial doctrines that dont bring unity among Christians with alot critism that divides the church.
The church value seems more on the Earthly things than the word of God.
I hereby kindly and humble invite you or your team to to come and be our quest to teach and preach and bring hope to this dying world,salvation and restore the lost through preaching of the uncompromising word of God.also
I would love to hear from you soon.
With love and blessings.
Rev.Carol
@Michael Turner. You are a legend. I would like to thank you for your contribution to Filipino Rock music and for being an inspiration to many Filipino youths. By the way I left VCF/EN too. I think I don’t need to explain, just follow the thread and you will get the point.
Thanks Anonymous. I only hope that people follow Jesus and not other men. The Lord did not tell us to only reach the students, the athletes, and the well-to-do. He said as we have done unto the least.. we have done unto Him.
Does anyone know why Rice Broocks has affiliated himself and Every Nation with Trinity Broadcasting Network? I thought the Internet forums would have something to say, but everything stops after 2012 at the latest, from what I can tell.
Possibly money and influence?
I attended EN since early this year and now I am thinking of leaving this church or not, since some stuff is just not right in what I believe. Every time I ask or voice out my opinion to the leaders about these stuffs, they always have a reason. My discipler told me to always believe in leaders no matter what because they know the best. But they are still humans, right?
I’m not saying that EN is a cult, since their teachings are bible-based (from my experience). But their emphasize their program too much until I was wondering what is their focus, EN program or God. And if I use other method/book than 121 it’s not consider as making disciples. They asked me to do 121 in church when I feel more comfortable to do it somewhere else. They also asked me to join conference that I can’t afford and say that it is a loss if I don’t register. I have to set my priority in this. The conference is indeed good but it’s not everything, it’s should not be the priority. And a lot more ..
60% leave 40% stay and still keep thinking ..
Malay you are right to continue thinking through all of this for yourself. I was not as confident as you are when I was in Every Nation and allowed myself to be told what to do- when they told me to submit to spiritual authority in spite of my own insights, I obeyed them, and it took a very long time to find my way back to myself and the Lord after that. I asked if we could read through a book by C.S. Lewis at one point and was told “no”, because he wasn’t an accepted Every Nation author. Another thing I remember from my time as an intern at Bethel in Nashville was how nicely Pastor Rice and all the other staff members dressed, the cars they drove and the cars their kids drove that my family could never afford, the big houses and elaborate parties that must have cost a lot of money. But I knew that money came from the tithes of faithful obedient members like my parents, hard working people who couldn’t afford much but gave as an act of obedience to God. I felt it wasn’t right to ask so much financially from poor people when it was obvious their money was being used to finance lavish lifestyles they would never know. That was my take on it. I hope you continue to observe and think for yourself- God certainly speaks to us that way.
Leave immediately! EN follows a false doctrine . Do some research on The New Apostolic Reformation and The Latter Rain. They are not a cult in the classic sense but they are a SOCIAL cult. I KNOW this movement very well. I was the very first missionary sent our of the Brentwood church, which was still Bethel Chapel at the time. I spent over a decade serving in this “church”, helped plant a lot of churches in the Philippines, and helped to add a LOT of people to their numbers. I regret having helped bring people into the religious bondage that is EN. RUN! Do not think. Leave and find a good church. There are plenty in Nashville that do not subscribe to the nonsense of Every Nation.
Michael do you mind if I ask what it was that eventually caused you to leave? Was it a single event or a culmination of things you disagreed with? I’m trying to understand this movement as an adult as it had such a strong and negative influence on my childhood and young adulthood. Has it always been a corrupt movement? Do you think they are after money primarily? I’m looking at my life and what others have experienced and all I can figure is that they are good at manipulation for the purpose of making a profit. I thought at one time that there was sincerity in the teachings I received as a young person but it’s getting harder to believe- and insight you can provide would be appreciated.
Hi Catherine, EN started as Maranatha Campus Ministries. You can research that. I know folks from the very early years that were involved with that. The biggest problem is that their doctrine is off regarding whether or not the church is called to TAKE DOMINION over the institutions of this current age. Now, there are probably tens of thousands, if not millions of people, who believe like this. I will give an example of two particular specific incidents that :woke me up”. The first was that I was told by church leaders in these exact words, “Don’t waste your time ministering to addicts and the homeless… ” The second was when a man walked in off the street Sunday morning and was asked to leave ONLY because he was obviously homeless. (not clean, shaven, etc, a dirty smell) I spent more time in the EN church overseas and I can tell you that there are some differences between there and the U.S. too. The incidents I mentioned were in the states. I have an MSW as well as a history of over a decade of “ministry” experience with EN, Morning Star. I would be happy to discuss further if you email me at michaelshawnturner@gmail.com Spiritual and psychological injury is very real and can sometimes affect one’s entire life. Healing and freedom are OURS in Christ.
I was a former member for 14 years. It does took years and a lot of times an act of God to see that there is definitely something wrong with this. it took a depression and a deliverance for me to see whats wrong with this ministry. It was after I left , the Lord spoke to me about the theft going on here. In 2007,after being confronted of misuse of funds. Rice Brookes admitted in the leadership meeting at Palm Spring that those money donated to Missions , buildings etc are being directed to their pocket. After that, pastors worldwide start to leave, pastors started to take their churches out by the thousands. At that time also Rice Brookes and one of his leaders was being sued for telling a girl to stop taking her medication by “faith” the girl tried to commit suicide a few times. Well , needless to say Rice Brookes had to settle this out of court. This was all over the news in Tennesee back then. People left Bethel in droves. Almost all of EN teachings are from Maranatha. I was there. They tell you who to marry, you are not allowed to date, what college course you are going to take, spend money in this conference etc. Even though you are struggling financially. They say that they are blessed but the actual truth is that they are stealing. They say about they raise money for this building or that building but the truth is, most of the money went straight to their pocket. They will not tell you how much was collected and how much they needed it, they just say trust them. Don’t ask questions. This ministry runs like the scientology. I would say visit another church and see the big difference.
Hi, is this still up? I just want to know some people if you guys are around here in Manila. I just want to talk to all of you who has some concern with EN. I mean I want to personally talk to you for further information. I’m from Victory Ubelt, where it all started. And yes, to be honest, I’m starting to see some flaws with the some of the teachings. Please do respond and I do hope we could meet personally. Thanks.
yea still up. I am former U-belt member , then came here to America joined Phil Bonasso church, then left that church too. There is definitely a lot of bad teachings and practice. Its a cult. Its foundation is from maranatha. A lot of EN practice is very in-line with the Scientology I noticed.
Yes this is one of the best forums for discussion about EN! I found it three years ago and it has helped so much. I recently learned that Every Nation is affiliated with the New Apostolic Reformation. I never had heard of this movement before, but it explains why people like Rice Broocks are so quick to call themselves “apostles”, and why Lordship and submission to spiritual authority are so heavy handed. And then too, EN was born out of the corrupt Maranatha movement. Anyway, i hope you feel free to get the informations you need Amanujaku
EN is not a cult in the classic sense. They will agree with most doctrines of orthodox Christianity. The problem is with the idea of their “ass-on” theology. Their foundation is based on theology that is only a hundred years or so old. Research Latter Rain, Manifest Sons, New Apostolic Reformation to see where they differ from most of the Christian church. I know the leaders of this movement and I know they love and want to serve God but they have built a man-made organization that really only makes religious clones.
As for me, right now, I’m transferring to a Reformed Church because it’s where I can hear the preaching of the Gospel. But yes, as much as possible, Lord willing, I could preach what must be preached to my friends in Victory.
Every nation ministry is trying to be one of the prosperity ministry. Like Creflo Dollar and kenneth Copeland Ministries. It does work for other ministries , they prospered and also helped the poor . They do have miracles happening there also. Rice Brookes , Phil bonasso and a lot of its leaders tried that and utterly fail. SO to try to look like prosperity ministers, these leaders start to steal and defraud people.They say that they are raising money for the building or mission when actually money went straight to their pockets, I got their financial records . In which i exposed them in 2006 – 2007. That is why hundreds of churches left worldwide. Rice was voted out of presidency(no confidence vote) and phil Bonasso have to step down as a chief financial officer. Rice, Phil, Steve and a lot of its leaders tries to removed themselves from Maranatha past but unfortunately, these leaders adopted the teachings and practice of Maranatha like “obey your leaders” Don’t question your leaders , They know best for you and God speak only to them, all of these teaching were dropped in those times. But habit dies hard. SO they adopted it once again because people forget. Here is my take with the gospel. The gospel is preached to have a relationship with our Lord and Savior. Its not about rules and regulation, because once it crossed to that, then it become legalistic and religious, it becomes institutionalized , its not about relationship any longer. Thats what happened to Every Nation ministry. Its all about man made rules. If all God want for us is to obey then He should have created robots. But He is not like that . He treats us individually. EN removed all of that.
I see, my main concern is the theological stance that EN upholds. As per my observation and some answers I got from asking some of the pastors, EN leaders has diverse theological/doctrinal stance which if to be looked from afar, is a good picture of unity. But when looked closely, it’s kinda problematic because it’s about Soteriology, how a man is saved, if its by his “acceptance of Christ as Lord and Savior” or by “repentance and turning to God,” is it by man’s free will or was it because of the regeneration of the heart made by the Spirit alone. This is then linked with “how” we present the gospel. Are we calling people to repentance and turn to God OR are we attracting people to be church members and somehow manipulate them to “accept Jesus as Lord and Savior” with the help of emotionally driving worship performances? This also leads to what every service contains. Does it have the preaching of the Gospel or is it full of jokes/examples/stories that will suit the itching ears of unconverted people? Bottom-line, we’re talking about souls here. Souls are at stake and that I cannot stomach, if I’m doing Evangelism the wrong way.
Amanojaku, so your problem is a theology issue how a person get saved . My problem is with EN is that these people said they are saved but there is no fruit of salvation . In other words, a changed life. Jesus said there are fruits of repentance, (Matthew 3:8) that is what I am looking for. And rarely you see them. My former pastor there like Phil Bonasso said he is saved and yet he defrauds people. These people said they repented of the fraud they committed back in 2007 and yet now, they said it never happened.There are a lot of people in EN said they are saved and yet the arrogance are still there. There is simply no fruits. This is exactly what Jesus is talking about when He directly rebuke the Pharasees . the Pharasees prays, fast , and read their bible than anybody else and yet there are the worse of the worst. The whole perception of how holy they are because they do these kind of things. Its all pride . They think they are saved by doing these things. These whole religious perception are deceiving. The fruits of the Spirit are simply not there. Humility, Kindness, Gentleness etc. So are they saved ? I don’t think so. Its all perception of being saved.
Don’t get confused with these issues. MOST folks I know in EN truly love the Lord and understand repentance and turning to Christ for salvation. That is NOT the issue. The issue is that they believe there are modern day apostles that walk in the same authority as the NT apostles. They feel that THEY alone are called to build the kingdom on the earth in preparation for the return of the Lord. THIS is the MAIN and most serious problematic issue with EN. A large portion of the evangelical church in the U.S. has bought into this idea or ideas stemming from this false teaching.
Michael, that is part true. They definitely do understand the repentance and salvation BUT they also do a lot of Religious work , like sharing the Word , praying, reading the Word as part of being more “righteous” before the Lord and men. Because of that alone it has become upfront to the cross. Telling the Lord what He did on the cross is not enough that they have to do all these “righteous works”. Its all rooted in religious pride . And yes they do think they are the one who would build God’s kingdom. That is why under Phil Bonasso years ago, they just worship that “leadership title” within the church. It is all religious pride. They are good with memorizing the Word, the salvation and repentance and all but to truly understand it, that is hard to find. I have spoken to a lot of people in there and still is over the years and explaining the gospel and salvation to them down to this level. A lot of top leaders really believe having a title gives them “spiritual authority: they wear it like a “spiritual Pride”. Now a days, I would cringe listening to people like that. It is definitely a problematic issue among churches. especially in Every Nation Ministry. The arrogance and Pride is an embarrassment that I myself do not want to be identified as a christian. Their lack of integrity and honor , defrauding people of money , dishonesty is a major embarrassment at every level. Here is a thought , with so much pride plus the dishonesty in the highest level , They still think God will used and calls them to be an apostle. That self deception is simply incredible.
Sandra, I certainly wouldn’t disagree with anything you said. I just know that the only way to potentially help those still under this bondage is to point out the most obvious and work from there. Most of the members of EN are not aware of the kind of stuff that has gone on “behind closed doors”. I doubt many would believe it. It is MUCH more obvious in the U.S. than in other countries because of their desire to “reach” the rich and powerful, My intent is to make people aware of the false teachings of the NAR.
Michael, Sandra, and other former EN folk…
Like you, I chose to leave EN a long time ago over most of the same issues listed above. For me it’s been over a decade, and many of the problems with the organization and its leaders are from back in *our* time (or even much earlier going back to the early 80’s), but I’m wondering if these practices and beliefs still exist today in 2016.
Do these leaders still want to control their followers through manipulation and freaky theology? Do they still insist on being called “apostles” and “prophets”? Do they still defraud their congregation to pay for their million dollar mansions while raising funds under the guise of “missions”?
I guess what I’m asking, is: “Are they still guilty?” Do people still come out of the system these days with the same kind of spiritual abuse PTSD we had 9, 10, 20 years ago? Maybe the org has changed a little in the last decade. I don’t know.
Another question I’ve wondered over all this time, is: “What will it be enough?” Do Phil, Rice, Steve, and Jim need to do some public repentance, apologizing for decades of abuse and manipulation, building an organization that hurt so many lives over the last 20+ years. Do they need to explain where their theology was flawed and try to correct their ways with new teachings? Do they need to open the financial books and show the world where every penny has gone over the last 5 years?
I was hurt, and I was mad… and I eventually learned to move on the best way I could. It’s been years, and I genuinely wish these guys well. It took I still disagree with them, would never work with them, and I still have to deal with some lingering unforgiveness when I think of them (which is quite rare these days)… but when is it enough? When can we just let them go?
Maybe the abuses are still continuing in Manila, Los Angeles, Nashville and around the world. Not sure anymore. I certainly hope not, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they still are at some level. I have learned that these abuses are certainly not limited to EN or similar groups. I have many friends who grew up Baptist, as well as non-denominational, who shared stories that make EN look very tame. Spiritual abuse is not particular only to EN or NAR. It’s a problem anywhere people start telling people what to do “on behalf of the Lord.”
I’m glad you posted this blog years ago, Michael. It has been a healing and a blessing for many lives.
Old Guy, its definitely been a decade LOL ! But yea, those abuses still exist because till this day, I still talk to people who reach out to me and Still have to explain the real gospel. The stealing , defrauding etc. Still do exist , Stealing and taking over other churches still exist. EN still refused to open their books, and when they do , its all generalized. Nothing specific where money is going. People are still asking Every Nation Ministry refuses to answer.
Old Guy it’s definitely still happening, the abuse. My brother and parents only recently left EN and I finally get to listen to their stories as they become comfortable talking- the thing about leaving this organization is that forever afterward you equate “un-forgiveness” with the anger and sadness that comes with talking about (and even just remembering) what happened. It’s natural to ruminate over traumatic life events, that’s part of healing that leads to forgiveness and it can take a lifetime- there isn’t a deadline of which I’m aware, just a command to try. And although I’m sure there ARE other denominations that also cause spiritual, psychological, and financial harm to members, it doesnt do anyone a favor to compare the severity of pain. So, my thought on all of this is: Our task as people who have left this movement is to take ourselves seriously, so that when others have complaints we can take THEM seriously. That’s what was so dehumanizing about EN: if you were hurt and told someone, they diagnosed you with “bitterness” or “un forgiveness” or a “spirit of rebellion”, etc. We left for a legitimate reasons, and leaving was hard. It required the restructuring of our worldview, and it made trusting hard, for me at least! I can’t set foot in church for the time being, and I don’t know when or if I will feel comfortable attending church again. so to the question of what kind of punishment will satisfy me as far as EN leadership goes? Something that proves they understand and are truly sorry for what their bad behavior did to me and to my family and closest friends. I guess i wish them (the offending leaders) well, I wish everyone well, of course, and I forgive and find new things to forgive or try to forgive everyday! I’m so tired of being sorry all of time for things that weren’t my fault, so I don’t repent too much for feeling mad when I do. Like you ive noticed I think about this less than I used to. But my need to forgive doesn’t negate my desire for justice. God seems concerned with both of those so I guess I should be and can be as well. I’ve also enjoyed this thread and agree that it has done a ton of good, and I’ve really enjoyed this recent discussion between Sandra and Michael! They are the two most responsive posters here and have been reassuring and challenging voices as I’ve sought to understand all of this. Anyway I hope we all continue the conversation because when you are out there wondering why you feel so terrible in EN, finding this thread and people with shared experience helps so very much!
Let’s also pray that we’ll not let these hurts to grow in our hearts but we may forgive them even if they’re not asking for forgiveness.
Very well said, Catherine. Very well said.
Hi, Old guy. I didn’t start this blog. My only interest in EN since 2005 has been to see people get free. I have no doubt that they continue to practice the same things. The “gospel” they preach has spread and affected most evangelical churches, especially in the west. Other than that, I don’t care about what they are doing at all. I feel guilty for helping add so many to their numbers and pray that God will redeem that by His grace. it was “enough” for me the day I left. My other concern is that this brand of theology is reaching into higher and higher realms of influence. Do we really want an EN style super champ as president one day? Watch out because that is what Peter Wagner and his cronies would love to see. I want to see more leaders in the church rise up and condemn false teaching and false teachers. God’s will be done regarding man made castles built on sand.
Ugh. I was hoping it was just a bunch of folk from “the early days”, but I guess discipleship really works — for good and bad : (
It took me years of daily forgiving those leaders for what we experienced. Buzzwords or memories would trigger some anger, grief, the sense of betrayal, etc., and I would better understand the practice of forgiving “seventy times seven” times a day. Ultimately, I was angry at God for leading me into that world for so much of my life. I learned that regret was a ridiculous exercise, and I tried to keep from re-hashing all the junk that happened… but I also realized that each of us is only human, and these emotions were quite normal to the healing process.
Now, about a decade after leaving that chapter (or rather major section) of my life, I can say that I am more healed and whole than I’ve ever felt. So glad I left when I did, and so thankful for all the relationships I’ve kept through it all. Some are still in EN, others eventually left, some left years earlier, and some never heard of the group… those folk are great!
I asked that question if people are still getting hurt because I have been so far removed from all that drama (purposefully) for all these years, that I honest wondered if it is still going on. It saddens me that there are still abuses, apparently. 15 years ago, there was a lot of online chat going back and forth on some of those early chat threads. It all had a very “conspiratorial” tone to it. I remember being in meetings where we (EN) discussed how to mitigate some of the discussion board rumors — a mix of lies, truth, and confusion. Some of it was laughable, but much of it was absolutely “True” (with a capital T), even if some of the details were off. We all knew there were problems with “older ways of discipleship” that were heavy-handed. We all wondered about the money. We all knew were pretentious in our sense of elitism and false humility. But what do we do? And we dare not accuse “God’s anointed”, right? When I left that whole reality, I never wanted anything ever to do with that group again. Part of me wanted to know some of the updates (like some juicy gossip column, but also partly in hope of real change), but I eventually lost interest and realized life was more enjoyable looking away from the goings-on in that organization. It’s been years since I’ve talk to anyone who is a “recent refugee” from EN, so I was genuinely hoping that was a good thing… that the abuses have subsided over the years. Wishful thinking, I guess.
I still have a lot of close friends in the organization. Lifelong friends, really. They understand why I left. And I understand why they stay (well, sort of). After decades, it’s hard to make such a significant change. I guess it is even harder making significant changes in a large organization of humans, so it shouldn’t surprise me that the abuses continue. I pray that things change for them, and I pray that we all continue to heal in our particular ways. Grace upon grace.
Old Guy, wow! Yes I’ve also seen some of the old message boards and agree it was hard to take them seriously in light of the conditioning EN puts you through regarding those who dissent with the movement AND the incredibly secretive tone, “conspiratorial” as you say. I completely agree, yes! I almost lost hope reading through those boards because part of you begins to feel like you’re digging for dirt- which in a way you are, you need validation! But then the timelines they give for the history of the movement beginning with Maranatha are so helpful. i decided to save the links and screenshot what I could because the boards did go quiet after 2007 I want to say? they picked up a little here and there but until this blog posting I couldn’t find real people talking about EN. I’ve wondered about the tone of those early boards and have theorized, haha, that maybe these were people still in the movement or recently out who just really needed to get the info out there. So I guess I’ve wondered if the stress of their circumstances lent itself to that conspiratorial tone. I just halfway tried to remember those boards were out there.
Anyway as an aside to all that, I’ll go ahead and add this just in case it might help someone… I grew up in EN and when I left, I was still young, late teens or early twenties? And my family was very much still loyal to the movement. This meant that i had to seek outside support which I got from a Christian therapist and later my husband. Over the years as I’ve processed the rejection and hurt, all the while thinking I was completely fine and fully recovered, I’ve had bouts of serious depression that have seemed to come out of nowhere. These breakdowns have been life-halting twice now and have forced me to seek help from other Christian counsellors. I’m not one to sit around and mope, I very much like to be active in my world and in my life, but these “episodes” just come from out of nowhere. Anyway, my last counsellor helped me understand why what I was feeling seemed so severe by comparing spiritual abuse to physical abuse. She said that in her practice she works with women who have been abused at some point in time, and that while it IS possible for these women to eventually trust another person enough to fall in love and get married, things like intimacy and physical contact can still be incredibly difficult…”it’s POSSIBLE for them, but intimacy take a LOT of patience and it can take a very long time. It can take a lifetime.” That’s not a direct quote but it’s pretty darn close, haha. Anyway she went on to say that people who have been abused spiritually require the same time and patience when trying to re-enter the church. She looked at my husband, who at that time was in a reformed seminary to become a pastor, and said, “do NOT take her to church for a long time, and I mean a VERY long time. SHE will be the one to tell you when she is ready.” And it was hard but not long after that my husband left seminary, on good terms and with the full support of his professors, and took a regular 9 to 5 job at a car lot back home. We started over and restructured our lives in order to discover together what it means to be human, to be hurt and to be allowed your pain for as long as it hurts until you get better. Today we are both so very happy that we took the counsellors advice- I guess that’s been five years ago now? And as an added bonus my family recently left (it took two tries for my parents, leaving, going back, leaving again).
anyway I’m confident that I will one day find a church to belong to, I’m sure it may take a few tries to find the right one, and I hope to know how much of myself to offer to the people I will get close to when I do. I know no church is perfect, EN made sure we all accepted that facet of Christian life! I just also know that no church is all-powerful, and no one gets to stand between me and God as a “spiritual authority” figure with absolute power. Hope this is helpful.
So glad to hear you are doing better… yeah, it’s been a process for us, too. We haphazardly “attend” church, but it has been years of coming and going and just resting for us, and I don’t even define “church” the same way anymore. I would even categorize this blog as an expression of the church, so maybe I’m “in attendance” right now ; )
Catherine, I probably never met you in person, but I helped support the structure of EN for years… probably even “holding the coats” of some of those who hurt you (if you know what I mean). I am so sorry for contributing to such undeserved pain in your life. It’s probably a meaningless gesture at this point, but I’m so sorry for all that happened. I used to try to justify the past hurts in my own life as some sort of “preparation for better things ahead” or “God works all things together”, but I think most of that is a bunch of BS. As humans, we try to find meaning out of the pain we caused or was done to us. And sure, maybe there is some “cosmic meaning” to all that we went through… but I’m not buying into that narrative, personally. It was just wrong. It was twisted theology in a manipulative structure, and I played a part in it, and I am so sorry.
I do hope you find that group of friends / believers with whom you can connect. They’re out there. I’ve found several friends and groups who just want to be real, laugh, play, share their struggles, their hopes and fears and pains, and figure out how to live this life in authenticity before God and each other. And it’s not in that weird “covenant spiritual family” way, either. Ha!
For me, it has gotten much easier as the years have gone by. And I know I will look back on that period in a much different light. It’s hard to believe it has been so long already. The pain and anger used to consume me every day, then just weekly, then monthly… Now, every once in a while, something will come up and I’ll remember and shake my head in a flash of incredulity over what happened years ago, and then it passes and I thank God I’m free from that environment. I’m glad you and your family are “free”, as well.
Thank you Old Guy, and Michael too. I hope I didn’t end up making you or anyone here feel worse about anything. I wanted to share from a place of wholeness what it can be like to get your head straight after leaving, I never got that kind of info when I needed it and thought it might help someone else. I know I’ve read you two talk about how it’s hard to have been in a position of leadership there, that you feel bad or guilty for having brought people into the movement or for serving the higher ups. But yes, it’s like you said, playing those leadership roles in EN is never without its share of blows. also, to be a member of EN is to compete for leadership roles within EN! They design it that way! It’s a movement full of two kinds of people: those who succeeded in filling Gods ultimate role for humankind (the Leaders), and those who failed and should sign up for childcare duties! Haha. I mean, I would have jumped at the chance to be a leader and was trying to be one, but I’m not outgoing. It’s really as simple as that. My personality did not set me up to succeed in EN. If I HAD been the gregarious world changer they praised and put up on stage constantly as the prime example of humanity? I would feel all the things I’ve read you and Michael say here- guilt, shame, and regret. So I failed to be a leader there and it hurt to be rejected, but you succeeded and it hurts to have participated in something you found out later was harmful. I really don’t think there is a bad guy here. I know I had junior high and high school leaders who turned on me viciously, and actually my dad did too, but they were all acting according to what they thought was Gods will, so I have tried but I can’t stay mad at that. We were all lied to. I get angry at Rice and some other main leaders, people who seem to attack those who question them and have trained an entire movement of people to do the same. But yeah, anyway I hope you guys know this is just frustrating and hard for all of us. I don’t think you have to kill yourself making amends, we were all “victims” so to speak, even though i kind of hate that word! There’s grace and forgiveness that covers the entire spectrum of involvement in this movement. For all the rationalization that goes on once you realize EN might not be so great, there’s also something in you pushing you forward to the moment you actually step down and leave- God was at work in you even as you thought you were doing everything wrong, and he was making sure that when the time was right, you would leave. How you proceed from here is up to you, but just know that yeah, I’m not mad at you, and God gets us all out in good time, I really believe that. So I WILL pray for Steve Murell even though I so distrust him as one of two guys who really got this whole thing going, right? But Michael if you know him and have some insight into his heart or motivations that I’m don’t have, then good grief it’s worth a shot! Wouldn’t it be cool to see something change from the top down, not the “restructuring” we’ve seen in the past years but actual change. It’s worth a shot, haha. Love you all. Thanks for talking about feelings with me!! Haha. Happy Tuesday.
(Oh wait it’s Wednesday) (here at least)
Catherine , Michael ,
Steve Murrell is pretty much deceived. At one point when the finances of the ministries were exposed. (also contacted the IRS) Steve pretty much admitted the financial and spiritual abuse . Rice and Phil Bonasso admitted these things also . BUT soon after that, churches by the hundreds worldwide started to leave. Fast forward years later, Steve denied the whole thing even lied that Tom, one of the whistleblower said that Tom came to him crying and repenting of the whole thing. He is not the same person as before when he was starting out. Now his Philippine ministry is huge success , this is his baby. He has to protect it. I spoke to Tom, Tom was furious of the lies that Steve said. Steve is protecting his lifelong friend Rice Brookes. Forget about God , honesty , integrity. They have none of that. His Philippine ministry is his kingdom, his god. A lot of Steve ‘s top leaders also are known for spiritual abuses, people have left. In fact , my sister is now attending a church there , the church consist of ex-VCF members by the hundreds .
My story is different. I got born-gain thru Jimmy Swaggart Ministry on TV. Never heard a gospel before, never read the bible. Never even seen one. When I was 11, I called out to God, I told Him I would serve Him when I have the freedom away from my parents. My whole family are buddhist. ALL I know there is one God and Jesus is a God. And at anytime, I prayed since 4 years old God answers, Then at 18 a high school classmate shared the gospel to me. I knew in my heart, that’s the God I was longing for since I was a child. Well, one day, summer begins, I felt prompted to watch Jimmy Swaggart. SO I did. Got born again after that at home. I went to the church of the one who shared the gospel to me. I got baptized in the Holy Spirit there. Speaking in tongues, and its different from EN or VCF. I was not force to. The way I got baptized is I could not control my mouth nor my tongue , my voice is different also. I absolutely have no control, just words of unknown tongue. After that, and all those spiritual gifts, prophesying, healing , getting slain, yea those are real. I have not read the bible when the Lord took me to the e Heavenlies, yea thats real too. I had not read the bible when these things start happening. When The Lord told me to leave the Oneness Pentecostal, I left. Yea they don’t believe in the Trinity but they do sure move powerfully in the spirit. That when the Lord direct me to go to Maranatha. The reason I did not leave here for 14 years is because I was waiting for the Lord to move like He did before in my former church. I thought Maranatha have signs and wonders . But I did not attend the church a lot its because my parents won’t let me. We were buddhist, getting born again out of the blue is a a big no-no. But they do like the blessings that is happening around me like anything I prayed, I mean anything He answered. There is always raffles among the chinese businesses and at anytime, they took me with them, we won. I mean I got noticed. I prayed for my co workers to win and they would win. I pray for blessings and they would be blessed. And every single one of them are unbelievers. I was moving in signs and wonders. SO the whole time, I thought Maranatha is like that. Surely they believe in it. That’s why I stayed. It is years till I found out that this whole VCF, MARANATHA and Every nation Ministry is a hoax. I don’t care about these apostolic reformation or Wagner stuff. All I know that the spiritual things are real . There is absolutely no way I can get convinced that its not real simply because I experienced it. Now, after 14 years, the Lord told me to looked at the fruits of Phil and Rice. Do they have any gift like as simple as healing ? NONE. No signs and wonders, nobody getting slain. No interpretation of dreams. NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY none. There is no kindness, gentleness etc. NONE. These whole thing is a HOAX. THAT is how I figured out. The Lord said check their fruits. And I did. That is why I exposed them back in 2000’s . Their finances , fraud, tax fraud etc. I did not hold back. I guess this is the reason why the Lord told me to go to maranatha. To bring them all down.
Sandra, I google searched Steve Murrell Every Nation and found this quote regarding Every Nation having their own music much like music that was born at different times of spiritual awakening in the past. ” Without a corresponding music component, our message will not have the legs to carry it around the world and forward into succeeding generations.”…… I have read the Word of God many times and there is nothing in there about music being the key to the advancement of the gospel! So, looks like they have gone from bad to worse. Regarding supernatural experiences, be careful. The Holy Spirit ALWAYS lines up with the Word. I used to be involved in the occult many, many years ago and all those things you mentioned can be faked by the enemy. However, I do agree with all your experiences both personally and regarding the lack of fruit in the lives of EN “leaders” They operate from a position of power and control, not love and service. Together, let us pray that their eyes will be opened.
Thank you all for sharing your experiences. Let us all pray for Pastor Steve Murrell. He is a good man who genuinely loves the Lord. Last I knew, which was about 7 years ago, he was pretty much the head honcho with EN.
There is a scripture that I have always believe in . That it always work for me over the years is that God would always protect His sons and daughters. SO at any point we attack his children, the Lord is the one who will avenge. I do not care if they are pastors or leaders of the church, we just simply not attack his children, even when they are down. Honor the Lord that lives inside them. I do not believe that Rice, Phil or Steve are His children simply because they do not have the fruits or the gifts. To declare them as apostles are laughable. 1 corinthian 12:12 said that the mark of a true apostle have signs and wonders. These three clowns simply don’t have them. And if they are truly children of the Lord, they would have the mark of The Lord, kindness, humility, integrity , gentleness etc. But these people have none of it. If they are from the Lord, they would not have been going around threatening people not to “gossip ” because they would have been protected by the Lord. The fruits would show that the Lord would avenge. The fact that shows they don’t have signs and wonders means these people are vulnerable , living in fear , masking as christians, masking as having “spiritual authority”. The whole ministry is a hoax. I was warned several times that the Lord would avenge FOR these leaders because I spoke up. It was laughable . They simply don’t have the mark of knowing Him. I never spoke against Jimmy Swaggart when he fell simply because I know he has a mark of the Lord. I honor the Lord that lives inside of him. But the three clowns, heck NONE. I just used common sense that is all. Yea, there are people who move in signs and wonders still fall, commit adultery etc. But I do know the Lord knows how to correct them. Even exposed them. But I will not threw a rock at them. Most Christians would. I would not .
I am in no position to determine who is in Christ and who is not. I think it is possible for even those who are in Christ to be deceived at some point in their lives. I do not believe that there are any new apostles walking the earth. Again, I do not base my opinions of a minister of the gospel on signs and wonders. I think there are some good teachers out there who are missing out on the supernatural experiences of walking in the Lord, but that does not mean they are not in Christ.
Michael, I do agree with you. With Apostles, I think they do exist but rare. I met a lot of people who moved in signs and wonders who could care less on those titles. They are just average people like you and me but they carry a certain weight and substance. Let me give you an example, there is one guy I know, at anytime anybody spoke to him,your whole body would start to get warm then hot. Not uncomfortable heat but something soothing. The Presence of the Lord is strong. He is a nobody in the church . I know also another woman, a good friend. When she prays for people, the Spirit of the Lord would just hit you like a wave. These are nobodies inside the church. No title, not leaders. You have no idea how angry I was with EN when I figure out that these so called church leaders have absolutely no spiritual authority. The Lord does not even answer their prayers. Then they go around throwing their weight around as if they got one. What worse they have people around them telling me don’t speak ill of them because they are the Lord’s anointed. I was furious ! I was like anointed with what ? stealing ? fraud ? Dishonesty ? Lack of integrity ? People in there are seriously blinded. Its like the common sense is thrown out of the window. Yes, I do agree there are people who are Christians do not walk in signs and wonders. That is biblical like Nehemiah. Who touch the Lord’s heart but have no signs and wonders like the other prophets in the bible. I am fine with that. But here is EN, who believes and preach these things and yet they are lacking. To me they are a JOKE. EN is simply DECEITFUL. Rice Brookes is a JOKE. Has absolutely no spiritual authority. NOTHING.
I didn’t read all the comments because it’s too much so I just scanned some of them.
My name’s RV, and I am a part of Every Nation Church here in a local town of the Philippines. I wanted to search for podcasts but it led me here instead, so I got curious because I didn’t know the controversy of the church I’m part of. And it made me realize why our pastor sometimes got so passionate whenever he’s up on the pulpit.
Well I just wanted to share my experiences by attending EN. I used to be a total atheist and a rebellious person, born and raised in a conservative and strict type of beliefs so when I started to attend this church last year (January 2016) it was too different for me. I felt home and it was a totally warm atmosphere. Eventually I got saved.
Yes, there will be flaws and criticisms about the church but looking on the growing number of the believers and the people that have been saved every year, I can tell that Every Nation’s doing a great job in helping people build a relationship with Christ.
The discipleship. Yes we do that, we tend to disciple a certain person (new ones that attends to church) in order for that to Spiritually mature in Christ. I was not being manipulated by my leader and I’m not doing this to the newer ones after me either. We try to build a comfortable relationship with each other and would talk about things and help that person surrender all their areas to Jesus Christ. We were being taught not to judge and condemn or persecute that individual but to show comfort, compassion and grace.
CULT
We were being taught BY OUR LEADERS themselves, that we’re not perfect and there are areas that we may fail, and even if they’re leaders we should also have the courage to correct them. Even our pastor tells us not to follow him, but to follow and believe ONLY in Jesus Christ and God’s Word.
There are prayer meetings, victory(life) groups, and services that I am being ENCOURAGED to attend to. Oftentimes they would ask me if it’s okay for me to go and if I got permission from my parents. They made sure of that.
We do NOT push ourselves and barge into people’s lives, but we made sure that we help them do what honors God most. If they’re struggling to find an answer the leaders are there to guide and provide wisdom while STILL pointing out everything to God, and if they won’t talk, we do not push them and shove our beliefs down to their throats.
Yes we are STILL ALLOWED to communicate and build friendships with people outside church. I have more friends outside church and we still hang out mostly. I just have to set our limits and since we are now living under God’s supervision, I tend to know my limits and remain holy.
Please do not generalize the whole EN because I’ve seen these kind of people in my hometown and they’re really genuine and nice.
Let our hearts soften by God, and filled by the Holy Spirit. I can see we are looking for the flaws that we forget how essential a Spiritual family is, for our lives. “If you think this is the church for you, we gladly welcome you, but if you think God desires to put you in another church, it’s still okay.” That’s what our pastor keeps telling us, non-verbatim. I’ve also seen people attending our church and moving to another. But that doesn’t mean they’re not right anymore. Also no RELIGION can save us. That’s why I think our campus ministries and pastors are so passionate in telling us that we have to read God’s Word and pray and have an intimate relationship with Him. God wants us to surrender everything to Him because He’s the reason why we are here in the first place.
Hope this helps. God bless to every one of you! 🙂
Hi there Arvie, I didn’t read your whole comment because it is very long but you haven’t actually listened to anyone here and should be very careful about scolding people who share experiences. I’m glad things are good for you and I hope you find your podcast.
“Let our hearts soften by God, and filled by the Holy Spirit. I can see we are looking for the flaws that we forget how essential a Spiritual family is, for our lives.”
RV, EN/VCF top leaders commit fraud, financial abuse and spiritual abuse and you are asking us and readers to overlooked them?
Anyway, I’ve acquired a transcript of a sermon preached when this group’s name was changing from Morning Star International to Every Nation (btw, this is short for Every Nation in a Generation). Some of the things said will blow your mind. Stuff about how God has “called us to rule over the Earth”. If you’d like a copy, please email me and I’ll be glad to send it to you.
I would like a copy please!
Its been a while since i have been here. We know their preaching of total control over people’s lives have not change. They come in subtle. Then slowly you will find yourself abandoning friends , family and eventually your own future. Manipulation comes slowly , some takes weeks to months . People who are insecure will follow what they say immediately by shaming , humiliating you slightly if you are new, There will come a time when people do not want to listen to reason and logic any longer. Just listen to the Leadership once you are there for years. I have seen people who lost their marriage, children , businesses, money and their own future. Abandoning everything for the Kingdom of Every Nation. The last news I heard was they have toned down after all the finances came out. The stealing, fraud, corruption. But its been ten years now or over. I am pretty sure they are hoping for people to forget. They will get back to their old ways. In which I have heard have also started.